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A handful of Russian right wingers larping as Nazis is not equivalent to the threat of Nazi Germany. Besides, the Russian occupation forces are doing a far more

A handful of Russian right wingers larping as Nazis is not equivalent to the threat of Nazi Germany. Besides, the Russian occupation forces are doing a far more realistic and faithful impression of the SD / Waffen SS themselves with all the mass graves, torture and forced disappearances. They even have the deportation thing down as well.

lisasays 3y ago
A handful of Russian right wingers larping as Nazis is not equivalent to the threat of Nazi Germany. Look, it's objectively stupid and inflammatory, in any conflict, to not just send people over the border to do whatever business you want them to do -- but to send people with either (1) highly questionable ties (2) doing stupid provocative shit, and (3) at the same time when you're attempting to claim plausible deniability - using the wrong weapons. Examples abound in recent and less-recent history. And it doesn't matter how small they are in terms of headcount. The bottom line is that it (at best) works against your stated goals, and at worst - can counteract these goals entirely. Besides, the Russian occupation forces are doing a far more realistic and faithful impression of the SD / Waffen SS themselves with all the mass graves, torture and forced disappearances. Damn right they are. But rather then do something to stop that - these tactics simply enable them to brainwash their own public further, and convince them of the "regrettable necessity" of the special operation which they ... keep insisting they were forced to undertake.
- moose_man 3y ago
  I get your concern, maybe it will end up being a bad move, who knows. Sometimes people screw up. But frankly this worries me a lot more than whatever methods the Ukrainians use for shaping attacks in advance of their offensive: https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/06/04/two-year-old-girl-killed-in-russian-strike-on-dnipropetrovsk-found-in-the-rubble-of-a-ruined-building https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/06/04/two-year-old-girl-kille...
  - lisasays 3y ago
    So that 2 year-old was part of an advance attack-shaping strategy on the part of the Ukrainians? I gotcha.
    - moose_man 3y ago
      You're purposely trying to twist this, I'm more concerned about Russians killing children than I am over Russian right wingers larping.
      - lisasays 3y ago
        Purposely, no. I honestly didn't understand what was meant to be implied by the article - and in fact there are lots of trolls (or troll-equivalent) accounts posting all kind of crazy, button-push stuff. Like civilian bombing / massacre victims being human shields or false-flag attacks by the Ukrainians themselves, for example.
        moose_man 3y ago
        I see, look the outcome we both want is for Russians to stop killing innocent people in Ukraine. https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1665093858839916545 https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1665093858839916545
        lisasays 3y ago
        Agreed. Part of the strategy for obtaining that goal is to stop giving them free propaganda points, in my view. Being as propaganda is one of the primary capital streams (besides oil revenues) that the regime unequivocally responsible for this whole calamity seems to run on.
- dekhn 3y ago
  I wouldn't say it's objectively stupid or inflammatory- rather it seems like a calculated risk. A lot of things shifted in the last year and it's clear now that Ukraine is using a wide range of options available to it- walking out progressively more aggressive responses, basically to test the russians and make the russian soldiers and leadership less confident in their approach. I imagine that they carefully watch the world's response to their actions, and adjust as necessary. Those responses include tacitly supporting guerillas. Will the upcoming counteroffensive lead to Ukrainian troops entering the traditionally borders of Russia (not just occupied lands)? It seems unlikely. Will we continue to see guerilla action on the borders and possibly closer to home (Moscow)? It seems very likely. Also, if the ukranians send nazi russians to russia to kill russians to stop the war, and the nazis get killed, that's a win for everybody, right?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - lisasays 3y ago
    So, if the ukranians send nazi russians to russia to kill russians to stop the war, and the nazis get killed, that's a win for everybody, right? Aside from the fact that they most likely won't (get killed) -- no, it's still not a win, or is it ever a win - to knowingly collaborate with committed Nazis for any tactical end, at any time. Trite as it may sound to some here.

lisasays 3y ago

A handful of Russian right wingers larping as Nazis is not equivalent to the threat of Nazi Germany. Look, it's objectively stupid and inflammatory, in any conflict, to not just send people over the border to do whatever business you want them to do -- but to send people with either (1) highly questionable ties (2) doing stupid provocative shit, and (3) at the same time when you're attempting to claim plausible deniability - using the wrong weapons. Examples abound in recent and less-recent history. And it doesn't matter how small they are in terms of headcount. The bottom line is that it (at best) works against your stated goals, and at worst - can counteract these goals entirely. Besides, the Russian occupation forces are doing a far more realistic and faithful impression of the SD / Waffen SS themselves with all the mass graves, torture and forced disappearances. Damn right they are. But rather then do something to stop that - these tactics simply enable them to brainwash their own public further, and convince them of the "regrettable necessity" of the special operation which they ... keep insisting they were forced to undertake.

moose_man 3y ago
I get your concern, maybe it will end up being a bad move, who knows. Sometimes people screw up. But frankly this worries me a lot more than whatever methods the Ukrainians use for shaping attacks in advance of their offensive: https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/06/04/two-year-old-girl-killed-in-russian-strike-on-dnipropetrovsk-found-in-the-rubble-of-a-ruined-building https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/06/04/two-year-old-girl-kille...
- lisasays 3y ago
  So that 2 year-old was part of an advance attack-shaping strategy on the part of the Ukrainians? I gotcha.
  - moose_man 3y ago
    You're purposely trying to twist this, I'm more concerned about Russians killing children than I am over Russian right wingers larping.
    - lisasays 3y ago
      Purposely, no. I honestly didn't understand what was meant to be implied by the article - and in fact there are lots of trolls (or troll-equivalent) accounts posting all kind of crazy, button-push stuff. Like civilian bombing / massacre victims being human shields or false-flag attacks by the Ukrainians themselves, for example.
      - moose_man 3y ago
        I see, look the outcome we both want is for Russians to stop killing innocent people in Ukraine. https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1665093858839916545 https://twitter.com/Mij_Europe/status/1665093858839916545
        lisasays 3y ago
        Agreed. Part of the strategy for obtaining that goal is to stop giving them free propaganda points, in my view. Being as propaganda is one of the primary capital streams (besides oil revenues) that the regime unequivocally responsible for this whole calamity seems to run on.
dekhn 3y ago
I wouldn't say it's objectively stupid or inflammatory- rather it seems like a calculated risk. A lot of things shifted in the last year and it's clear now that Ukraine is using a wide range of options available to it- walking out progressively more aggressive responses, basically to test the russians and make the russian soldiers and leadership less confident in their approach. I imagine that they carefully watch the world's response to their actions, and adjust as necessary. Those responses include tacitly supporting guerillas. Will the upcoming counteroffensive lead to Ukrainian troops entering the traditionally borders of Russia (not just occupied lands)? It seems unlikely. Will we continue to see guerilla action on the borders and possibly closer to home (Moscow)? It seems very likely. Also, if the ukranians send nazi russians to russia to kill russians to stop the war, and the nazis get killed, that's a win for everybody, right?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- lisasays 3y ago
  So, if the ukranians send nazi russians to russia to kill russians to stop the war, and the nazis get killed, that's a win for everybody, right? Aside from the fact that they most likely won't (get killed) -- no, it's still not a win, or is it ever a win - to knowingly collaborate with committed Nazis for any tactical end, at any time. Trite as it may sound to some here.