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I mean sure, the situation isn't ideal, but being invaded by Russia isn't either. Besides, who knows if it is worth trade off? Maybe it will force Russia to dep
by moose_man 3y ago
I mean sure, the situation isn't ideal, but being invaded by Russia isn't either. Besides, who knows if it is worth trade off? Maybe it will force Russia to deploy more forces to guard their borders and leave open opportunities for the counter offensive that wouldn't otherwise happen. We can't say yet whether it is a stupid move until it plays out.
- lisasays 3y agoI mean sure, the situation isn't ideal, but so is being invaded by Russia. The thing is, this exactly the logic that moved so many people in so many European countries (including, very close to the front of the pack, Ukraine itself) to seek either full or partial alliance with the German occupiers in the first place, back during that other conflict (which supposedly never really ended, according to what Putin is desperately trying to tell the world). That, and again, the shitty optics and (unfortunately quite) tangible propaganda benefit for the other side.
- moose_man 3y agoA handful of Russian right wingers larping as Nazis is not equivalent to the threat of Nazi Germany. Besides, the Russian occupation forces are doing a far more realistic and faithful impression of the SD / Waffen SS themselves with all the mass graves, torture and forced disappearances. They even have the deportation thing down as well.
- lisasays 3y agoA handful of Russian right wingers larping as Nazis is not equivalent to the threat of Nazi Germany. Look, it's objectively stupid and inflammatory, in any conflict, to not just send people over the border to do whatever business you want them to do -- but to send people with either (1) highly questionable ties (2) doing stupid provocative shit, and (3) at the same time when you're attempting to claim plausible deniability - using the wrong weapons. Examples abound in recent and less-recent history. And it doesn't matter how small they are in terms of headcount. The bottom line is that it (at best) works against your stated goals, and at worst - can counteract these goals entirely. Besides, the Russian occupation forces are doing a far more realistic and faithful impression of the SD / Waffen SS themselves with all the mass graves, torture and forced disappearances. Damn right they are. But rather then do something to stop that - these tactics simply enable them to brainwash their own public further, and convince them of the "regrettable necessity" of the special operation which they ... keep insisting they were forced to undertake.
- moose_man 3y agoI get your concern, maybe it will end up being a bad move, who knows. Sometimes people screw up. But frankly this worries me a lot more than whatever methods the Ukrainians use for shaping attacks in advance of their offensive: https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/06/04/two-year-old-girl-killed-in-russian-strike-on-dnipropetrovsk-found-in-the-rubble-of-a-ruined-building https://meduza.io/en/news/2023/06/04/two-year-old-girl-kille...
- lisasays 3y agoSo that 2 year-old was part of an advance attack-shaping strategy on the part of the Ukrainians? I gotcha.
- moose_man 3y agoYou're purposely trying to twist this, I'm more concerned about Russians killing children than I am over Russian right wingers larping.
- lisasays 3y agoPurposely, no. I honestly didn't understand what was meant to be implied by the article - and in fact there are lots of trolls (or troll-equivalent) accounts posting all kind of crazy, button-push stuff. Like civilian bombing / massacre victims being human shields or false-flag attacks by the Ukrainians themselves, for example.