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As a parent, I am watching the latest generation of kids where they are struggling to find meaningful work because some of them never worked a day in their life

As a parent, I am watching the latest generation of kids where they are struggling to find meaningful work because some of them never worked a day in their life. I want to avoid that situation. I obviously am not advocating for child labor in a meat packing plant working night shifts around dangerous tools and machinery.

mmarq 3y ago
I “never worked a day in my life” until I turned 19 and found my first job. You don’t need to work in you mid teens to find a meaningful job as an adult.
- codegeek 3y ago
  Respectfully, I wouldn't want my kid to wait till 19 to do that. I want them to get a job the moment they turn 14-15 (whatever the legal age is in my state). I am very privileged and want my kids to learn the value of money and what it takes to survive in the real world. I want them to work in a dirty shitty McDonalds where they see how tough the real world is. Yes I wouldn't send them to a meat packing plant but there is big difference between never working or just working cool summer jobs and working in a meat factory. I want my kids to experience some hardship where your boss is yelling at you to get shit done. As long as it is not full abuse. I want my kids to learn that the World is not rainbow and sunshines from an early age. I still love them to death and would die for them.
  - jakelazaroff 3y ago
    I truly don’t understand the mindset that suffering is not only something that we should not try to eliminate, but something that we should actually indoctrinate people into.
    - mathgladiator 3y ago
      The truth is that we haven't solved automated all the jobs that require suffering. With the worry about AI, I was staring at my plumbing stack the other day for hours... Realizing, this is a shit job in the truest form, and I couldn't figure out how a machine could do it. The reason to understand the suffering, to indoctrinate people as you say, is to teach people to respect those that have these jobs. Life is hard, and we are in it together.
      - jakelazaroff 3y ago
        I agree with the end you're talking about — respecting people who have difficult jobs — but I find the means bizarre. Can you not respect someone without having put yourself in the exact same position? Your default position should be empathy! But you also glossed over an important point I'm trying to make: we should see suffering as a sometimes necessary evil and try to alleviate it whenever possible, rather than see it as some sort of virtue.
    - BasedAnon 3y ago
      Why do you think work a worse fate than school? At least with work you get paid for your time and effort, and get the chance to network with people older than yourself
  - NickBusey 3y ago
    > I want my kids to experience some hardship where your boss is yelling at you to get shit done This is a horrendous take, and I’m glad you’re not my parent. They’ll learn the world isn’t rainbows and sunshine without being in a toxic work environment before they’re even old enough to vote.
    - codegeek 3y ago
      See, that's where I disagree where a tough boss is considered "toxic" nowadays.
      - Timon3 3y ago
        A "tough boss" is very different from a "yelling boss". If you can't control your emotions enough not to yell at your fellow people, you should have no power over anybody.
  - austhrow743 3y ago
    Why is a dirty shitty McDonalds more real world than an upbringing where you didn't arbitrarily force that on them?
  - mmarq 3y ago
    If I want my child to learn anything about bosses that shout, is that you don’t let anybody shout at you.
- mathgladiator 3y ago
  I was raking leaves when I was 13, and I started freelancing 15... Why? Well, it started because I wanted to play Mario Kart on Super Nintendo... There is something about developing a work ethic as a young person that is important. It starts with chores like mowing the yard.
  - codegeek 3y ago
    You seem to get my argument. It is about helping your child develop good "Work Ethics" which unfortunately these days is equated to being exploited if you dare to bring it up.
    - mmarq 3y ago
      That’s not true at all. People work much harder than in the past, especially considering what they get back. 20-30 year olds are the first generation in almost a century that give away half of their waking hours and struggle to get decent housing. Rates of unionisation are extremely low, strikes are extremely rare (it took a 30% real income loss before junior doctors started striking in the UK), employment rates are the highest throughout the world and unpaid overtime is the norm in almost all careers.
  - jakelazaroff 3y ago
    What exactly is important about it?
    - mathgladiator 3y ago
      Things have to get done. I own a house. Some time ago, my plumbing had issues. I had to go down into my basement and deal with shit. Literal shit. Work ethic is what lets you put on the "I got things to do" hat, and then you do them. That's just life. Life is hard and brutal requiring constant effort.
      - sangnoir 3y ago
        > Things have to get done Is homework not inadequate to teach this lesson? Kids are not dumb. There's a pervasive stench of Calvinism in American work culture, even among atheists. There's nothing sanctifying about work, insomuch as it is a good (or bad) thing to teach kids its importance by having them clock in. Using children as a backup labor force due to an adult worker shortage is - as the kids call it - yucky.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
libraryatnight 3y ago
You're willing to come into a thread as a parent making comments in defense of child labor (your note saying you're not advocating it is at odds with your comment and irrelevant),based on your myopic generalization of a generation. Youve got cranky old person brain and are flirting with dangerous solutions. a pitty
- codegeek 3y ago
  I am not advocating for Child Labor. Putting a 15 year old in a Meat Packing plant working night shifts is wrong. I would never advocate for that. But I wanted to highlight that we have gone in the other direction too much as a culture where kids are over protected and we no longer teach them work ethics at an early age and that creates problems when many of them get out there in the real world after 18. I have seen many in my own friends/family and I refuse to let my kids go through the same.
  - libraryatnight 3y ago
    Your feeling about what direction you think anything is going is irrelevant and again limited, it's a personal insecurity it has no place here in a thread discussing an article describing what you claim to know is wrong while sewing some doubt that it's wrong because of anecdotal anxiety

mmarq 3y ago

I “never worked a day in my life” until I turned 19 and found my first job. You don’t need to work in you mid teens to find a meaningful job as an adult.

codegeek 3y ago
Respectfully, I wouldn't want my kid to wait till 19 to do that. I want them to get a job the moment they turn 14-15 (whatever the legal age is in my state). I am very privileged and want my kids to learn the value of money and what it takes to survive in the real world. I want them to work in a dirty shitty McDonalds where they see how tough the real world is. Yes I wouldn't send them to a meat packing plant but there is big difference between never working or just working cool summer jobs and working in a meat factory. I want my kids to experience some hardship where your boss is yelling at you to get shit done. As long as it is not full abuse. I want my kids to learn that the World is not rainbow and sunshines from an early age. I still love them to death and would die for them.
- jakelazaroff 3y ago
  I truly don’t understand the mindset that suffering is not only something that we should not try to eliminate, but something that we should actually indoctrinate people into.
  - mathgladiator 3y ago
    The truth is that we haven't solved automated all the jobs that require suffering. With the worry about AI, I was staring at my plumbing stack the other day for hours... Realizing, this is a shit job in the truest form, and I couldn't figure out how a machine could do it. The reason to understand the suffering, to indoctrinate people as you say, is to teach people to respect those that have these jobs. Life is hard, and we are in it together.
    - jakelazaroff 3y ago
      I agree with the end you're talking about — respecting people who have difficult jobs — but I find the means bizarre. Can you not respect someone without having put yourself in the exact same position? Your default position should be empathy! But you also glossed over an important point I'm trying to make: we should see suffering as a sometimes necessary evil and try to alleviate it whenever possible, rather than see it as some sort of virtue.
  - BasedAnon 3y ago
    Why do you think work a worse fate than school? At least with work you get paid for your time and effort, and get the chance to network with people older than yourself
- NickBusey 3y ago
  > I want my kids to experience some hardship where your boss is yelling at you to get shit done This is a horrendous take, and I’m glad you’re not my parent. They’ll learn the world isn’t rainbows and sunshine without being in a toxic work environment before they’re even old enough to vote.
  - codegeek 3y ago
    See, that's where I disagree where a tough boss is considered "toxic" nowadays.
    - Timon3 3y ago
      A "tough boss" is very different from a "yelling boss". If you can't control your emotions enough not to yell at your fellow people, you should have no power over anybody.
- austhrow743 3y ago
  Why is a dirty shitty McDonalds more real world than an upbringing where you didn't arbitrarily force that on them?
- mmarq 3y ago
  If I want my child to learn anything about bosses that shout, is that you don’t let anybody shout at you.
mathgladiator 3y ago
I was raking leaves when I was 13, and I started freelancing 15... Why? Well, it started because I wanted to play Mario Kart on Super Nintendo... There is something about developing a work ethic as a young person that is important. It starts with chores like mowing the yard.
- codegeek 3y ago
  You seem to get my argument. It is about helping your child develop good "Work Ethics" which unfortunately these days is equated to being exploited if you dare to bring it up.
  - mmarq 3y ago
    That’s not true at all. People work much harder than in the past, especially considering what they get back. 20-30 year olds are the first generation in almost a century that give away half of their waking hours and struggle to get decent housing. Rates of unionisation are extremely low, strikes are extremely rare (it took a 30% real income loss before junior doctors started striking in the UK), employment rates are the highest throughout the world and unpaid overtime is the norm in almost all careers.
- jakelazaroff 3y ago
  What exactly is important about it?
  - mathgladiator 3y ago
    Things have to get done. I own a house. Some time ago, my plumbing had issues. I had to go down into my basement and deal with shit. Literal shit. Work ethic is what lets you put on the "I got things to do" hat, and then you do them. That's just life. Life is hard and brutal requiring constant effort.
    - sangnoir 3y ago
      > Things have to get done Is homework not inadequate to teach this lesson? Kids are not dumb. There's a pervasive stench of Calvinism in American work culture, even among atheists. There's nothing sanctifying about work, insomuch as it is a good (or bad) thing to teach kids its importance by having them clock in. Using children as a backup labor force due to an adult worker shortage is - as the kids call it - yucky.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

libraryatnight 3y ago

You're willing to come into a thread as a parent making comments in defense of child labor (your note saying you're not advocating it is at odds with your comment and irrelevant),based on your myopic generalization of a generation. Youve got cranky old person brain and are flirting with dangerous solutions. a pitty

codegeek 3y ago
I am not advocating for Child Labor. Putting a 15 year old in a Meat Packing plant working night shifts is wrong. I would never advocate for that. But I wanted to highlight that we have gone in the other direction too much as a culture where kids are over protected and we no longer teach them work ethics at an early age and that creates problems when many of them get out there in the real world after 18. I have seen many in my own friends/family and I refuse to let my kids go through the same.
- libraryatnight 3y ago
  Your feeling about what direction you think anything is going is irrelevant and again limited, it's a personal insecurity it has no place here in a thread discussing an article describing what you claim to know is wrong while sewing some doubt that it's wrong because of anecdotal anxiety