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The amount of “pro child labor” comments in this thread is truly disheartening.

by NickBusey 3y ago

l3mure 3y ago
Extremely on brand for HN, there's always a notable contingent in these kinds of threads.
- libraryatnight 3y ago
  There's a lot of people here who forgot what they were before the internet made them comfortable livings, and then a bunch more that are MBA types willing to say anything that makes money makes sense
lowbloodsugar 3y ago
There is a war going on, and HN is influential enough that it warrants propaganda.
- green_man_lives 3y ago
  I have felt that way for a while. It seems like a place where propaganda would have a very good ROI. I see fewer and fewer tech articles on here and more and more "culture war" stuff. But I have only been active about 2 years. I'd like to know if the vibe was different before.
codegeek 3y ago
As a parent, I am watching the latest generation of kids where they are struggling to find meaningful work because some of them never worked a day in their life. I want to avoid that situation. I obviously am not advocating for child labor in a meat packing plant working night shifts around dangerous tools and machinery.
- mmarq 3y ago
  I “never worked a day in my life” until I turned 19 and found my first job. You don’t need to work in you mid teens to find a meaningful job as an adult.
  - codegeek 3y ago
    Respectfully, I wouldn't want my kid to wait till 19 to do that. I want them to get a job the moment they turn 14-15 (whatever the legal age is in my state). I am very privileged and want my kids to learn the value of money and what it takes to survive in the real world. I want them to work in a dirty shitty McDonalds where they see how tough the real world is. Yes I wouldn't send them to a meat packing plant but there is big difference between never working or just working cool summer jobs and working in a meat factory. I want my kids to experience some hardship where your boss is yelling at you to get shit done. As long as it is not full abuse. I want my kids to learn that the World is not rainbow and sunshines from an early age. I still love them to death and would die for them.
    - jakelazaroff 3y ago
      I truly don’t understand the mindset that suffering is not only something that we should not try to eliminate, but something that we should actually indoctrinate people into.
      - mathgladiator 3y ago
        The truth is that we haven't solved automated all the jobs that require suffering. With the worry about AI, I was staring at my plumbing stack the other day for hours... Realizing, this is a shit job in the truest form, and I couldn't figure out how a machine could do it. The reason to understand the suffering, to indoctrinate people as you say, is to teach people to respect those that have these jobs. Life is hard, and we are in it together.
        jakelazaroff 3y ago
        I agree with the end you're talking about — respecting people who have difficult jobs — but I find the means bizarre. Can you not respect someone without having put yourself in the exact same position? Your default position should be empathy! But you also glossed over an important point I'm trying to make: we should see suffering as a sometimes necessary evil and try to alleviate it whenever possible, rather than see it as some sort of virtue.
- libraryatnight 3y ago
  You're willing to come into a thread as a parent making comments in defense of child labor (your note saying you're not advocating it is at odds with your comment and irrelevant),based on your myopic generalization of a generation. Youve got cranky old person brain and are flirting with dangerous solutions. a pitty
  - codegeek 3y ago
    I am not advocating for Child Labor. Putting a 15 year old in a Meat Packing plant working night shifts is wrong. I would never advocate for that. But I wanted to highlight that we have gone in the other direction too much as a culture where kids are over protected and we no longer teach them work ethics at an early age and that creates problems when many of them get out there in the real world after 18. I have seen many in my own friends/family and I refuse to let my kids go through the same.
    - libraryatnight 3y ago
      Your feeling about what direction you think anything is going is irrelevant and again limited, it's a personal insecurity it has no place here in a thread discussing an article describing what you claim to know is wrong while sewing some doubt that it's wrong because of anecdotal anxiety
cafard 3y ago
My grandfather thought that his sons, college-bound as they were, should experience manual labor. For my father, it was a county road crew one summer, for his younger brother a stint or two as a railroad track worker. Sometime after their days with shovels, they sat down and reviewed the old man's chronology. He had never done paid manual labor, had gone right from a commercial high school to an office. He admitted this, saying that he thought that it would be good for them. But a) these were his sons, big strapping guys of seventeen or so, and b) they were not in especially hazardous conditions. The people who think it is well for other people's adolescents to do dangerous work, I don't understand.
- green_man_lives 3y ago
  Funny, my grandfather worked in agriculture since he was 5 by his own account. He is the hardest working man I know, but I never heard him say anything about the value of a hard day's work. Instead he told me how important an education was and how I should always work smarter and not harder.
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
> The amount of “pro child labor” comments in this thread is truly disheartening. Why is there no nuance between "let the kids do safe jobs if they want" and "make the kids do dangerous jobs" positions? I guess you are either for it all or against any of it?
- green_man_lives 3y ago
  Because the article is about the exploitation of migrant children in dangerous industries and people are commenting with pro child-labor takes citing their summer job in high school. It's 1. An unproductive shift from the actual topic. 2. Clear they didn't bother reading the article. I don't think anyone has an issue with teenagers working at McDonald's, although I think they should be taught about labor protections first to avoid being exploited by a megalomaniac store manager. Which is a common occurrence since teenagers don't know any better.
BasedAnon 3y ago
why? Do you have any idea how many of them would be in a significantly better place financially by their 20s instead of being in debt?

The amount of “pro child labor” comments in this thread is truly disheartening.

l3mure 3y ago

Extremely on brand for HN, there's always a notable contingent in these kinds of threads.

libraryatnight 3y ago
There's a lot of people here who forgot what they were before the internet made them comfortable livings, and then a bunch more that are MBA types willing to say anything that makes money makes sense

lowbloodsugar 3y ago

There is a war going on, and HN is influential enough that it warrants propaganda.

green_man_lives 3y ago
I have felt that way for a while. It seems like a place where propaganda would have a very good ROI. I see fewer and fewer tech articles on here and more and more "culture war" stuff. But I have only been active about 2 years. I'd like to know if the vibe was different before.

codegeek 3y ago

As a parent, I am watching the latest generation of kids where they are struggling to find meaningful work because some of them never worked a day in their life. I want to avoid that situation. I obviously am not advocating for child labor in a meat packing plant working night shifts around dangerous tools and machinery.

mmarq 3y ago
I “never worked a day in my life” until I turned 19 and found my first job. You don’t need to work in you mid teens to find a meaningful job as an adult.
- codegeek 3y ago
  Respectfully, I wouldn't want my kid to wait till 19 to do that. I want them to get a job the moment they turn 14-15 (whatever the legal age is in my state). I am very privileged and want my kids to learn the value of money and what it takes to survive in the real world. I want them to work in a dirty shitty McDonalds where they see how tough the real world is. Yes I wouldn't send them to a meat packing plant but there is big difference between never working or just working cool summer jobs and working in a meat factory. I want my kids to experience some hardship where your boss is yelling at you to get shit done. As long as it is not full abuse. I want my kids to learn that the World is not rainbow and sunshines from an early age. I still love them to death and would die for them.
  - jakelazaroff 3y ago
    I truly don’t understand the mindset that suffering is not only something that we should not try to eliminate, but something that we should actually indoctrinate people into.
    - mathgladiator 3y ago
      The truth is that we haven't solved automated all the jobs that require suffering. With the worry about AI, I was staring at my plumbing stack the other day for hours... Realizing, this is a shit job in the truest form, and I couldn't figure out how a machine could do it. The reason to understand the suffering, to indoctrinate people as you say, is to teach people to respect those that have these jobs. Life is hard, and we are in it together.
      - jakelazaroff 3y ago
        I agree with the end you're talking about — respecting people who have difficult jobs — but I find the means bizarre. Can you not respect someone without having put yourself in the exact same position? Your default position should be empathy! But you also glossed over an important point I'm trying to make: we should see suffering as a sometimes necessary evil and try to alleviate it whenever possible, rather than see it as some sort of virtue.
libraryatnight 3y ago
You're willing to come into a thread as a parent making comments in defense of child labor (your note saying you're not advocating it is at odds with your comment and irrelevant),based on your myopic generalization of a generation. Youve got cranky old person brain and are flirting with dangerous solutions. a pitty
- codegeek 3y ago
  I am not advocating for Child Labor. Putting a 15 year old in a Meat Packing plant working night shifts is wrong. I would never advocate for that. But I wanted to highlight that we have gone in the other direction too much as a culture where kids are over protected and we no longer teach them work ethics at an early age and that creates problems when many of them get out there in the real world after 18. I have seen many in my own friends/family and I refuse to let my kids go through the same.
  - libraryatnight 3y ago
    Your feeling about what direction you think anything is going is irrelevant and again limited, it's a personal insecurity it has no place here in a thread discussing an article describing what you claim to know is wrong while sewing some doubt that it's wrong because of anecdotal anxiety

cafard 3y ago

My grandfather thought that his sons, college-bound as they were, should experience manual labor. For my father, it was a county road crew one summer, for his younger brother a stint or two as a railroad track worker. Sometime after their days with shovels, they sat down and reviewed the old man's chronology. He had never done paid manual labor, had gone right from a commercial high school to an office. He admitted this, saying that he thought that it would be good for them. But a) these were his sons, big strapping guys of seventeen or so, and b) they were not in especially hazardous conditions. The people who think it is well for other people's adolescents to do dangerous work, I don't understand.

green_man_lives 3y ago
Funny, my grandfather worked in agriculture since he was 5 by his own account. He is the hardest working man I know, but I never heard him say anything about the value of a hard day's work. Instead he told me how important an education was and how I should always work smarter and not harder.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

> The amount of “pro child labor” comments in this thread is truly disheartening. Why is there no nuance between "let the kids do safe jobs if they want" and "make the kids do dangerous jobs" positions? I guess you are either for it all or against any of it?

green_man_lives 3y ago
Because the article is about the exploitation of migrant children in dangerous industries and people are commenting with pro child-labor takes citing their summer job in high school. It's 1. An unproductive shift from the actual topic. 2. Clear they didn't bother reading the article. I don't think anyone has an issue with teenagers working at McDonald's, although I think they should be taught about labor protections first to avoid being exploited by a megalomaniac store manager. Which is a common occurrence since teenagers don't know any better.

BasedAnon 3y ago

why? Do you have any idea how many of them would be in a significantly better place financially by their 20s instead of being in debt?