7 ms·

I love electric vehicles – and was early adopter. But increasingly I feel duped

10 points by zqna 3y ago

schiffern 3y ago
I was hoping for more, but sadly it's just another hydrogen puff piece. Also in the middle he weirdly conflates length of first ownership with total vehicle lifespan. He compares it to "fast fashion," acting as if the cars were being thrown in the trash instead of resold and used for another 10+ years. I guess there's a reason we don't look to actors for our transport and environmental policy.
- mikece 3y ago
  Actors buying electric cars typically do so to appear fashionable or environmentally conscious. The exception would be the legitimate car enthusiasts/gear heads/petrol heads who buy electric cars because of their engineering possibilities. (Or Londoners like the author of The Guardian piece who can avoid the congestion charge by driving an EV or hybrid.)
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Surely someone buys them just because they are fun drives. I can’t be the only one.
  - hiharryhere 3y ago
    I’d put Rowan Atkinson squarely in the car enthusiast/gear head category.
    - defrost 3y ago
      He's no fool on the engineering side and remains friends | connected with others that he studied with who have gone on to have some serious careers in research and industry. I've had several evenings with him in Australia via a mutual friend who shared math professors and a pipe organ with him back in the day.
- olivermarks 3y ago
  Atkinson is a pretty heavyweight knowledgeable car guy and as he says in the article has a university degree in electrical and electronic engineering, with a subsequent master’s in control systems. I think the problem with some BEV owners, (probably due to the endless virtue signalling high pressure guilt sales models) is their almost complete lack of understanding of the issues Atkinson discussed here, or in some cases an almost wilful refusal to accept basic logic, physics and alternatives. He didn't bring up fire risks which I consider a rapidly escalating problem as more BEVs are sold. (Jaguar are having to recall their ipace SUV due to battery fire risks this week as the latest example)
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Jaguar recalling vehicles because they got the electrical system wrong is nothing new, it’s been like that since at least the 70s.
    - olivermarks 3y ago
      Tata Steel own jlr now, most 70s 80s jags used Bosch electrical components, typically shared with the various German brands. They definitely skimped on wiring quality in the late 70s, it nearly killed them until Ford rescued them. The issue with the current recall appears to be with LG Energy Solution South Korea batteries and the jlr Battery management code rather than a hardware issue. Who knows imo modern vehicles are far to complex
  - TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
    > I think the problem with some BEV owners, (probably due to the endless virtue signalling high pressure guilt sales models) is their almost complete lack of understanding of the issues Atkinson discussed here, or in some cases an almost wilful refusal to accept basic logic, physics and alternatives. Thank you for pointing this out. It is so tiresome to see repeated "You should charge at home". But what if you can't charge at home? Like 50% of people in EU living in apartments can't charge at home? Let's just ignore this glaring issue with BEV? What about the issue that charging outside of home is equally or more expensive than taking gas, but on top of that you are wasting much more of your own time in order to facilitate charging. And let's not forget on unique application for almost each charger stall and each app has uniquely crap UX. Why do I even need an app? Why isn't there contactless/NFC payment terminal? Vending machines have them, why charging stalls don't?
thx-2718 3y ago
https://archive.is/dwcoV https://archive.is/dwcoV Hydrogen fuel cell, coupled potentially with ammonia transportation, and airlines using hydrogen engines, might make it economically as a way to export solar. Though don't discount finding alternative metals to lithium for batteries. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-28238-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-28238-3
ZeroGravitas 3y ago
He's definitely been duped, but not by electric vehicles. > I used to be with ‘it/cars’, but then they changed what ‘it/cars’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it/cars’ anymore and what’s ‘it/cars’ seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you! -- Grandpa Simpson You should keep old ICE cars if you don't drive very much, or sell them to someone who is in a similar situation. If you actually drive an average amount you should definitely get an EV for the (local and global) environment. Plus lower TCO, and less maintenance, and less fossil fuel imports, better handling, etc.
- ZeroGravitas 3y ago
  Ah, found his issue, when you own a $12 million car collection, adding some EVs is unlikely to change your carbon footprint significantly: https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/21272619/inside-mr-bean-rowan-atkinson-car-collection/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/21272619/inside-mr-bean-rowa...

10 points by zqna 3y ago

I was hoping for more, but sadly it's just another hydrogen puff piece. Also in the middle he weirdly conflates length of first ownership with total vehicle lifespan. He compares it to "fast fashion," acting as if the cars were being thrown in the trash instead of resold and used for another 10+ years. I guess there's a reason we don't look to actors for our transport and environmental policy.

mikece 3y ago
Actors buying electric cars typically do so to appear fashionable or environmentally conscious. The exception would be the legitimate car enthusiasts/gear heads/petrol heads who buy electric cars because of their engineering possibilities. (Or Londoners like the author of The Guardian piece who can avoid the congestion charge by driving an EV or hybrid.)
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Surely someone buys them just because they are fun drives. I can’t be the only one.
- hiharryhere 3y ago
  I’d put Rowan Atkinson squarely in the car enthusiast/gear head category.
  - defrost 3y ago
    He's no fool on the engineering side and remains friends | connected with others that he studied with who have gone on to have some serious careers in research and industry. I've had several evenings with him in Australia via a mutual friend who shared math professors and a pipe organ with him back in the day.
olivermarks 3y ago
Atkinson is a pretty heavyweight knowledgeable car guy and as he says in the article has a university degree in electrical and electronic engineering, with a subsequent master’s in control systems. I think the problem with some BEV owners, (probably due to the endless virtue signalling high pressure guilt sales models) is their almost complete lack of understanding of the issues Atkinson discussed here, or in some cases an almost wilful refusal to accept basic logic, physics and alternatives. He didn't bring up fire risks which I consider a rapidly escalating problem as more BEVs are sold. (Jaguar are having to recall their ipace SUV due to battery fire risks this week as the latest example)
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  Jaguar recalling vehicles because they got the electrical system wrong is nothing new, it’s been like that since at least the 70s.
  - olivermarks 3y ago
    Tata Steel own jlr now, most 70s 80s jags used Bosch electrical components, typically shared with the various German brands. They definitely skimped on wiring quality in the late 70s, it nearly killed them until Ford rescued them. The issue with the current recall appears to be with LG Energy Solution South Korea batteries and the jlr Battery management code rather than a hardware issue. Who knows imo modern vehicles are far to complex
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  > I think the problem with some BEV owners, (probably due to the endless virtue signalling high pressure guilt sales models) is their almost complete lack of understanding of the issues Atkinson discussed here, or in some cases an almost wilful refusal to accept basic logic, physics and alternatives. Thank you for pointing this out. It is so tiresome to see repeated "You should charge at home". But what if you can't charge at home? Like 50% of people in EU living in apartments can't charge at home? Let's just ignore this glaring issue with BEV? What about the issue that charging outside of home is equally or more expensive than taking gas, but on top of that you are wasting much more of your own time in order to facilitate charging. And let's not forget on unique application for almost each charger stall and each app has uniquely crap UX. Why do I even need an app? Why isn't there contactless/NFC payment terminal? Vending machines have them, why charging stalls don't?

thx-2718 3y ago

https://archive.is/dwcoV https://archive.is/dwcoV Hydrogen fuel cell, coupled potentially with ammonia transportation, and airlines using hydrogen engines, might make it economically as a way to export solar. Though don't discount finding alternative metals to lithium for batteries. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-28238-3 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-28238-3

ZeroGravitas 3y ago

He's definitely been duped, but not by electric vehicles. > I used to be with ‘it/cars’, but then they changed what ‘it/cars’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it/cars’ anymore and what’s ‘it/cars’ seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you! -- Grandpa Simpson You should keep old ICE cars if you don't drive very much, or sell them to someone who is in a similar situation. If you actually drive an average amount you should definitely get an EV for the (local and global) environment. Plus lower TCO, and less maintenance, and less fossil fuel imports, better handling, etc.

ZeroGravitas 3y ago
Ah, found his issue, when you own a $12 million car collection, adding some EVs is unlikely to change your carbon footprint significantly: https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/21272619/inside-mr-bean-rowan-atkinson-car-collection/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/21272619/inside-mr-bean-rowa...