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I wonder if the API change was more about third-party clients than slowing LLM progress. That horse has already left the barn, and when you have important partn

I wonder if the API change was more about third-party clients than slowing LLM progress. That horse has already left the barn, and when you have important partners, you reach out before the public announcement about the API and give them a deal well below the rate card, if not free. Or maybe internal teams weren't aligned on this, and the partner/BD team was caught off-guard.

mdasen 3y ago
I'm guessing it's more about going public. Anyone who is using Apollo (or similar apps) isn't seeing ads and isn't giving Reddit lots of stuff they can track. For a long time, Reddit had allowed much more user-friendly access than most places. Their API offered great access for free and their ads were trivial to block with ad blockers. If you look at Instagram or Facebook, you'll be getting tons of ads even if you have an adblocker because they've spent a lot of time getting around those. YouTube has been working hard to get around ad blocking and Google is even trying to limit adblocking in future Chrome releases. This has left Reddit with less revenue than other popular sites. If they're trying to go public, they're going to want to show revenue growth and show that they're able to get more money per user. You've called Apollo an "important partner", but are they a partner for Reddit or a rival? In terms of Reddit's revenue, they seem to be a rival. This is certainly terrible for users and I'm sure Reddit will face a decent amount of backlash over it. At the same time, I'm not really sure about categorizing Apollo as an important partner. Is Apollo kinda like YouTube Vanced? A better app for users that also means less revenue for the service? To an extent, who wants Reddit's ad-infested app when they could have Apollo? If you're Reddit and looking to have a good IPO and grow your revenue, Apollo and other apps are standing in the way of that. They're offering a better, ad-free experience of Reddit. Over time, more and more people would want to use ad-free apps like Apollo instead of the official Reddit app as more people realize they exist so it's not like the problem would be shrinking for Reddit. I think LLMs might be a convenient excuse, but I think the bigger issue is likely that they want to grow the revenue they're getting from their user base and they can't do that when people are using apps that get around their monetization. Reddit is following what most similar sites have done.
- timmytokyo 3y ago
  I agree with all of this, but one of reddit's main problems is that its own offerings are so inferior to the third party offerings. I mean, we're talking an order of magnitude worse. When you shut down the better offerings without giving people a comparable alternative, you're cooking your own goose.
  - dehrmann 3y ago
    Then you buy the third-party offerings.
stefan_ 3y ago
Who can even tell, Reddit is a joke of a company. Seriously, is this the third time someone there tried to play startup and "reinvent" it? All the while the actual website only gets worse?
- rekoil 3y ago
  As much as I enjoy using reddit (old.reddit.com and Apollo), I wholeheartedly agree with this statement.
rafark 3y ago
It’s clearly inspired by Twitter. Which bothers me a lot. Who would follow ANYTHING that Twitter does at the moment? Twitter currently has the worst leadership in its history. Every decision made by twitter in the past months have lowered the value of the site, not the other way around. Twitter is currently worth about $15 billion down from $45b a few months ago. Why would any company try to copy Twitter?
- prothy 3y ago
  Twitter was never worth $45 billion. That's the price Musk bought it for and he tried to backpedal when he realized it wasn't worth that much. It's a technicality that just adds to your point though.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    In a world of Verblen goods, which includes $30,000 more-esoteric-than-Rolex watches, what does "worth" even mean? It's not like there's a vibrant market for Internet businesses that underpin online communication to discover a market optimal price. Musk wanted to buy Twitter, and wanted a discount. He threw whatever language he could at it to try and get the price lowered. It's not like you can go to the store and buy a Twitter or Discord. You have to haggle to come upon a price that both parties can agree on, which is a foreign concept in the western world. Things are worth what you're willing to pay for them.
ncr100 3y ago
It's also about future product plans, in my estimation. Look at the recent job postings for mobile developers. See talk about adding multimedia interactive widgets to sub reddits. The current product is not sticky enough apparently. This customizable widget tech is unlikely to be easily supported by third parties and will slow down the adoption and rebirth of Reddit as a sticky profit cow.
1270018080 3y ago
Their valuation just got cut by 40%. They're desperate for new revenue streams. The board wants their exit.
- garbagecoder 3y ago
  /thread

mdasen 3y ago

I'm guessing it's more about going public. Anyone who is using Apollo (or similar apps) isn't seeing ads and isn't giving Reddit lots of stuff they can track. For a long time, Reddit had allowed much more user-friendly access than most places. Their API offered great access for free and their ads were trivial to block with ad blockers. If you look at Instagram or Facebook, you'll be getting tons of ads even if you have an adblocker because they've spent a lot of time getting around those. YouTube has been working hard to get around ad blocking and Google is even trying to limit adblocking in future Chrome releases. This has left Reddit with less revenue than other popular sites. If they're trying to go public, they're going to want to show revenue growth and show that they're able to get more money per user. You've called Apollo an "important partner", but are they a partner for Reddit or a rival? In terms of Reddit's revenue, they seem to be a rival. This is certainly terrible for users and I'm sure Reddit will face a decent amount of backlash over it. At the same time, I'm not really sure about categorizing Apollo as an important partner. Is Apollo kinda like YouTube Vanced? A better app for users that also means less revenue for the service? To an extent, who wants Reddit's ad-infested app when they could have Apollo? If you're Reddit and looking to have a good IPO and grow your revenue, Apollo and other apps are standing in the way of that. They're offering a better, ad-free experience of Reddit. Over time, more and more people would want to use ad-free apps like Apollo instead of the official Reddit app as more people realize they exist so it's not like the problem would be shrinking for Reddit. I think LLMs might be a convenient excuse, but I think the bigger issue is likely that they want to grow the revenue they're getting from their user base and they can't do that when people are using apps that get around their monetization. Reddit is following what most similar sites have done.

timmytokyo 3y ago
I agree with all of this, but one of reddit's main problems is that its own offerings are so inferior to the third party offerings. I mean, we're talking an order of magnitude worse. When you shut down the better offerings without giving people a comparable alternative, you're cooking your own goose.
- dehrmann 3y ago
  Then you buy the third-party offerings.

stefan_ 3y ago

Who can even tell, Reddit is a joke of a company. Seriously, is this the third time someone there tried to play startup and "reinvent" it? All the while the actual website only gets worse?

rekoil 3y ago
As much as I enjoy using reddit (old.reddit.com and Apollo), I wholeheartedly agree with this statement.

rafark 3y ago

It’s clearly inspired by Twitter. Which bothers me a lot. Who would follow ANYTHING that Twitter does at the moment? Twitter currently has the worst leadership in its history. Every decision made by twitter in the past months have lowered the value of the site, not the other way around. Twitter is currently worth about $15 billion down from $45b a few months ago. Why would any company try to copy Twitter?

prothy 3y ago
Twitter was never worth $45 billion. That's the price Musk bought it for and he tried to backpedal when he realized it wasn't worth that much. It's a technicality that just adds to your point though.
- fragmede 3y ago
  In a world of Verblen goods, which includes $30,000 more-esoteric-than-Rolex watches, what does "worth" even mean? It's not like there's a vibrant market for Internet businesses that underpin online communication to discover a market optimal price. Musk wanted to buy Twitter, and wanted a discount. He threw whatever language he could at it to try and get the price lowered. It's not like you can go to the store and buy a Twitter or Discord. You have to haggle to come upon a price that both parties can agree on, which is a foreign concept in the western world. Things are worth what you're willing to pay for them.

ncr100 3y ago

It's also about future product plans, in my estimation. Look at the recent job postings for mobile developers. See talk about adding multimedia interactive widgets to sub reddits. The current product is not sticky enough apparently. This customizable widget tech is unlikely to be easily supported by third parties and will slow down the adoption and rebirth of Reddit as a sticky profit cow.

1270018080 3y ago

Their valuation just got cut by 40%. They're desperate for new revenue streams. The board wants their exit.

garbagecoder 3y ago
/thread