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Note: I am a digital nomad for half the year every year myself. With that said on your second commentary about digital nomads, my question would simply be: Are

Note: I am a digital nomad for half the year every year myself. With that said on your second commentary about digital nomads, my question would simply be: Are they getting the work you expect done finished in a timely manner (comparable to others on your team)? If so, regardless of any other point, what is the problem? If not, then why didn't you address the issue quickly since you mention you're the one who hired them. I do know there are some digital nomads who definitely minimize the amount of work they can do, but I still think the issue is with employers in general not being good at managing remote workers (not just digital nomads). If you don't set expectations or clearly communicate that they aren't working up to expectations, then of course they will continue to act in such a way. Work is not my life, and I think that jars with the thinking of some others who prioritize their work over everything else. My honest opinion is that this primarily a failing of management and hiring you are speaking to. I do good work, and whatever is expected of me, and my manager is always happy. I make sure to do at minimum just that. But if I'm not doing that I would hope somebody would simply communicate that.

prepend 3y ago
> If not, then why didn't you address the issue quickly since you mention you're the one who hired them. For me, it’s because I’m busy and this takes time. Being a good employee isn’t unique to digits nomads or not. But having to micromanage to correct problems is something I’d like to avoid as a manager. I have fantastic employees and do not experience this type of behavior and work on hiring people who are self starters and problem solvers not people who bill by the hour, work for an hour and bill 8 and claim it’s because I didn’t assign more work. I’d rather hire someone smart who figures out what they can do by maximizing their time themself that helps toward our broader mission. I don’t want to assign tasks, I want to remove blockers and help expand impact. So I like to find more things to do, not finish things and then wait.
- Jcampuzano2 3y ago
  The need to micromanage some people like this is also not unique to digital nomads, so I don't see how the time needed to navigate this issue from a management level is any different for a digital nomad vs anybody else? There are plenty of in-office workers who do the exact same thing, they just might be sitting at their desk all day waiting for something. In fact they might even give off an even greater illusion of doing something/being productive simply because you can visually see them, not because of actually doing anything. I honestly think a lot of office workers/remove workers who aren't digital nomads do the exact same things being purported with respect to amount of time actually spent working. They just may not in a fancy location and because you can visually see them it brings false sense of productivity. That said, I'm not saying that I nor many others sit on my thumbs and do nothing if I have no tasks assigned. In my thoughts that is part of the expectations being set/what my responsibilities are (i.e. setting expectations/it being know that my job role is not a task mule). I agree that this can be an issue, but I also think this issue is not unique to digital nomads. This all still seems like a hiring and management issue to me more than a digital nomad issue. How I see it is that if somebody is needing to be micromanaged and you don't desire that, remote or not, give them a warning/communicate and if it continues, let them go.
  - PragmaticPulp 3y ago
    > so I don't see how the time needed to navigate this issue from a management level is any different for a digital nomad vs anybody else? The point is that they’re not the same in practice. Hypothetically, a perfect digital nomad would be indistinguishable from any other remote employee. But in practice, there’s something about the digital nomad lifestyle that incentivizes people to minimize their workload at the expense of their peers/manager more than the average employee: They’re traveling the world and want to get back to doing the travel thing by doing as little work as they can get away with. Having someone in constantly changing time zones is also a pain for communication. Having them in constantly different backgrounds (often noisy or shared) is a challenge. Having them on spotty WiFi that cuts out and makes them unable to do their job is a challenge. All of these things in theory could be avoided, but in practice it always turns out to be a huge hassle to try to mix digital nomads with a team that’s trying to get work done. About the only time it works out is when it’s for contract work where the deadline isn’t urgent and you’re paying a project-based fee that is agreed up front by both parties. This moves all of the incentive to do good work and deliver on time over to the nomad, which works much better with trying to balance against the whole world travel nomad thing. > This all still seems like a hiring and management issue Which is why I fixed it by declining to hire or manage digital nomads as FTEs. I only work on project-based contracts and it’s much more aligned now. The idea that it’s the manager’s responsibility to extract work from the employee is exactly the mentality that I was describing: This mindset that underperformance is only the manager’s fault leads to a requirement of heavy micromanagement, but it’s exasperated by digital nomads who are extra incentivized to minimize their work/fool their managers so they have more time to vacation.
PragmaticPulp 3y ago
> my question would simply be: Are they getting the work you expect done finished in a timely manner (comparable to others on your team)? If so, regardless of any other point, what is the problem? No, they are not getting comparable work done. That’s literally the entire problem I was trying to describe. > If not, then why didn't you address the issue quickly since you mention you're the one who hired them. Why do you assume I’m not addressing the issue? I specifically said it took heavy management interaction to try to keep them on track. This is the same argument that always comes up: If they “get their work done” then what’s the problem? If they got their work done I wouldn’t care. The problem is that they don’t get their work done in a timely manner and/or they sandbag to exaggerate how long their work will take so they can do minimal work, thereby shifting the workload to their teammates who are actually honest.

prepend 3y ago

> If not, then why didn't you address the issue quickly since you mention you're the one who hired them. For me, it’s because I’m busy and this takes time. Being a good employee isn’t unique to digits nomads or not. But having to micromanage to correct problems is something I’d like to avoid as a manager. I have fantastic employees and do not experience this type of behavior and work on hiring people who are self starters and problem solvers not people who bill by the hour, work for an hour and bill 8 and claim it’s because I didn’t assign more work. I’d rather hire someone smart who figures out what they can do by maximizing their time themself that helps toward our broader mission. I don’t want to assign tasks, I want to remove blockers and help expand impact. So I like to find more things to do, not finish things and then wait.

Jcampuzano2 3y ago
The need to micromanage some people like this is also not unique to digital nomads, so I don't see how the time needed to navigate this issue from a management level is any different for a digital nomad vs anybody else? There are plenty of in-office workers who do the exact same thing, they just might be sitting at their desk all day waiting for something. In fact they might even give off an even greater illusion of doing something/being productive simply because you can visually see them, not because of actually doing anything. I honestly think a lot of office workers/remove workers who aren't digital nomads do the exact same things being purported with respect to amount of time actually spent working. They just may not in a fancy location and because you can visually see them it brings false sense of productivity. That said, I'm not saying that I nor many others sit on my thumbs and do nothing if I have no tasks assigned. In my thoughts that is part of the expectations being set/what my responsibilities are (i.e. setting expectations/it being know that my job role is not a task mule). I agree that this can be an issue, but I also think this issue is not unique to digital nomads. This all still seems like a hiring and management issue to me more than a digital nomad issue. How I see it is that if somebody is needing to be micromanaged and you don't desire that, remote or not, give them a warning/communicate and if it continues, let them go.
- PragmaticPulp 3y ago
  > so I don't see how the time needed to navigate this issue from a management level is any different for a digital nomad vs anybody else? The point is that they’re not the same in practice. Hypothetically, a perfect digital nomad would be indistinguishable from any other remote employee. But in practice, there’s something about the digital nomad lifestyle that incentivizes people to minimize their workload at the expense of their peers/manager more than the average employee: They’re traveling the world and want to get back to doing the travel thing by doing as little work as they can get away with. Having someone in constantly changing time zones is also a pain for communication. Having them in constantly different backgrounds (often noisy or shared) is a challenge. Having them on spotty WiFi that cuts out and makes them unable to do their job is a challenge. All of these things in theory could be avoided, but in practice it always turns out to be a huge hassle to try to mix digital nomads with a team that’s trying to get work done. About the only time it works out is when it’s for contract work where the deadline isn’t urgent and you’re paying a project-based fee that is agreed up front by both parties. This moves all of the incentive to do good work and deliver on time over to the nomad, which works much better with trying to balance against the whole world travel nomad thing. > This all still seems like a hiring and management issue Which is why I fixed it by declining to hire or manage digital nomads as FTEs. I only work on project-based contracts and it’s much more aligned now. The idea that it’s the manager’s responsibility to extract work from the employee is exactly the mentality that I was describing: This mindset that underperformance is only the manager’s fault leads to a requirement of heavy micromanagement, but it’s exasperated by digital nomads who are extra incentivized to minimize their work/fool their managers so they have more time to vacation.

PragmaticPulp 3y ago

> my question would simply be: Are they getting the work you expect done finished in a timely manner (comparable to others on your team)? If so, regardless of any other point, what is the problem? No, they are not getting comparable work done. That’s literally the entire problem I was trying to describe. > If not, then why didn't you address the issue quickly since you mention you're the one who hired them. Why do you assume I’m not addressing the issue? I specifically said it took heavy management interaction to try to keep them on track. This is the same argument that always comes up: If they “get their work done” then what’s the problem? If they got their work done I wouldn’t care. The problem is that they don’t get their work done in a timely manner and/or they sandbag to exaggerate how long their work will take so they can do minimal work, thereby shifting the workload to their teammates who are actually honest.