4 ms·

IMO social media should age check by law. The problem with parental control is that it’s very difficult to say no, if the child’s friends are on socal media. Le

IMO social media should age check by law. The problem with parental control is that it’s very difficult to say no, if the child’s friends are on socal media. Let the social media do age controls, by law.

ValleZ 3y ago
How?
jdthedisciple 3y ago
And as a result have everyone upload their personal identification to some untrustworthy corporate database? Thanks but no thanks. There ought to be better solutions. My view is that it's a question of culture. In particular, the eradication of any sort of authority (parents, teachers) and the worshipping of "I want, therefore it's good and my right" are among the root causes for this epidemic.
- filmor 3y ago
  Have age checking done by a trusted third party that only certifies the age check on the spot without storing any information (post office or sth like that?)?
- iakov 3y ago
  A government API / website to do the verification can work similar to OpenID - the end application doesn't know any PII, receiving a JWT with some basic info (name, age email) instead. Just something on top of my head, I'm sure that there are solutions to this. It's the political will and balls that are nowhere to be found...
  - uncletammy 3y ago
    Sorry, no. I don't trust a government API/website with my personal information. They collect and abuse the private data that I DON'T willingly give them access to. Imagine what they'd do with the data I do.
    - mrweasel 3y ago
      The government already have all your personal information. If you mean that you don't trust a government API to do age verification, then that's already an option in some countries and it doesn't have to expose anything. Denmark have MitID, which is a sort of government OIDC/OAuth2 thing. There's no issue in having it expose only a single claim, such as age, or adult=true/false in age verification scope. You don't have to open the floodgates to government data, in fact Denmark has navigated that pretty well through the last three iterations of our government issues online ID scheme. There's even laws preventing cross referencing data from different database, in the case that you for some reason have access to it.
    - iakov 3y ago
      Where do you live where the government does not have your basic information - name & date of birth? You're being unreasonably paranoid IMO.
- goda90 3y ago
  The government could provide anonymous age credentials. A private-public key that neither the website nor the government can use to identify the user, but that confirms the user holds a key issued by the government verifying their age.
- triceratops 3y ago
  > And as a result have everyone upload their personal identification to some untrustworthy corporate database? What about having IRL stores sell one-time use age verification tokens after showing ID? Just like tobacco or alcohol they can make it illegal to provide them to a minor. Whereas if you're worried about privacy you can still buy with cash.
  - micromacrofoot 3y ago
    this already exists in some places and they have to keep a log of checks so they can be audited
    - triceratops 3y ago
      So do it without the log. There's no log of alcohol and tobacco buyers, and also no need for "audits" there. Have some undercover inspectors do spot checks to make sure all retailers are checking ID. Fail the test, lose your license.
      - micromacrofoot 3y ago
        “we have no record of this user gaining access”
        triceratops 3y ago
        I don't understand. Who's "we"? The store sells a scratch card containing a single-use code, after you show them ID. When you sign up with whatever social network, you enter the code and the social network validates it with the code provider service. That's it. At best the code provider can tell the social network which store the code was purchased in. Drive over to the next state to purchase codes if you're paranoid. Mandate by law that no records of code purchases or copies of ID are kept. We don't require it for alcohol or tobacco purchases so there's no justification here.
  - AgentK20 3y ago
    And what prevents a Malicious Actor (older student? friend who already graduated? someone who wants to sell them?) from acquiring multiple of said age verification tokens from different vendors? Well, now there has to be a database somewhere of all of the tokens that have been created along with the ID number of the person who acquired the token. Who maintains this database? The government? The companies who we don't want storing our data? Sure, it adds more steps than just "click this checkbox if you're an adult" but kids/teens are a crafty bunch and, unlike drugs and sex, a) the penalty for violation of the rules is not immediately obvious (to the youth, OR even to society) and b) the act of violating the rules is not obvious in itself to people who aren't on that person's phone: there's no physical items left behind for parents to notice. Effectively what we're talking about here is trying to solve the Sybil Problem, which has no widely-accepted solution.
woodruffw 3y ago
> IMO social media should age check by law. They do[1]. Most social media sites in the US don't allow children under 13 to use their sites, as a matter of policy. There have been proposals to expand COPPA to other forms of tracking and to children under 16. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Online_Privacy_Prot...
- brandon272 3y ago
  To be clear, “age checking” involves nothing more than having the user enter their birthdate via a datepicker. Not exactly the same kind of verification used for things like cigarettes or alcohol.
  - woodruffw 3y ago
    Right. The alternative would be mandatory identification to websites, which would be a gross violation of user privacy, and impossible under the US’s current ID schemes.
  - izacus 3y ago
    You can use parental tools to disable these apps. Demanding thar whole world uploads private IDs to sites to check age because you refuse to parent well is absurd.
nonethewiser 3y ago
We expect youtube to moderate content for kids. And they do a pretty good job. There is no reason Facebook, TikTok, etc should be exempt. Problem for TikTok is the very nature of it is whats bad for kids. Shortens attention span.
- izacus 3y ago
  What are the American parents doing then? They just let corporations raise their kids and choose what they can see?
  - boppo1 3y ago
    Yes.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    Parents can’t do it alone and parents are probably more active in their kids lives than ever. Compare todays parents to a generation that was kicked out of the house until sunset.

ValleZ 3y ago

How?

jdthedisciple 3y ago

And as a result have everyone upload their personal identification to some untrustworthy corporate database? Thanks but no thanks. There ought to be better solutions. My view is that it's a question of culture. In particular, the eradication of any sort of authority (parents, teachers) and the worshipping of "I want, therefore it's good and my right" are among the root causes for this epidemic.

filmor 3y ago
Have age checking done by a trusted third party that only certifies the age check on the spot without storing any information (post office or sth like that?)?
iakov 3y ago
A government API / website to do the verification can work similar to OpenID - the end application doesn't know any PII, receiving a JWT with some basic info (name, age email) instead. Just something on top of my head, I'm sure that there are solutions to this. It's the political will and balls that are nowhere to be found...
- uncletammy 3y ago
  Sorry, no. I don't trust a government API/website with my personal information. They collect and abuse the private data that I DON'T willingly give them access to. Imagine what they'd do with the data I do.
  - mrweasel 3y ago
    The government already have all your personal information. If you mean that you don't trust a government API to do age verification, then that's already an option in some countries and it doesn't have to expose anything. Denmark have MitID, which is a sort of government OIDC/OAuth2 thing. There's no issue in having it expose only a single claim, such as age, or adult=true/false in age verification scope. You don't have to open the floodgates to government data, in fact Denmark has navigated that pretty well through the last three iterations of our government issues online ID scheme. There's even laws preventing cross referencing data from different database, in the case that you for some reason have access to it.
  - iakov 3y ago
    Where do you live where the government does not have your basic information - name & date of birth? You're being unreasonably paranoid IMO.
goda90 3y ago
The government could provide anonymous age credentials. A private-public key that neither the website nor the government can use to identify the user, but that confirms the user holds a key issued by the government verifying their age.
triceratops 3y ago
> And as a result have everyone upload their personal identification to some untrustworthy corporate database? What about having IRL stores sell one-time use age verification tokens after showing ID? Just like tobacco or alcohol they can make it illegal to provide them to a minor. Whereas if you're worried about privacy you can still buy with cash.
- micromacrofoot 3y ago
  this already exists in some places and they have to keep a log of checks so they can be audited
  - triceratops 3y ago
    So do it without the log. There's no log of alcohol and tobacco buyers, and also no need for "audits" there. Have some undercover inspectors do spot checks to make sure all retailers are checking ID. Fail the test, lose your license.
    - micromacrofoot 3y ago
      “we have no record of this user gaining access”
      - triceratops 3y ago
        I don't understand. Who's "we"? The store sells a scratch card containing a single-use code, after you show them ID. When you sign up with whatever social network, you enter the code and the social network validates it with the code provider service. That's it. At best the code provider can tell the social network which store the code was purchased in. Drive over to the next state to purchase codes if you're paranoid. Mandate by law that no records of code purchases or copies of ID are kept. We don't require it for alcohol or tobacco purchases so there's no justification here.
- AgentK20 3y ago
  And what prevents a Malicious Actor (older student? friend who already graduated? someone who wants to sell them?) from acquiring multiple of said age verification tokens from different vendors? Well, now there has to be a database somewhere of all of the tokens that have been created along with the ID number of the person who acquired the token. Who maintains this database? The government? The companies who we don't want storing our data? Sure, it adds more steps than just "click this checkbox if you're an adult" but kids/teens are a crafty bunch and, unlike drugs and sex, a) the penalty for violation of the rules is not immediately obvious (to the youth, OR even to society) and b) the act of violating the rules is not obvious in itself to people who aren't on that person's phone: there's no physical items left behind for parents to notice. Effectively what we're talking about here is trying to solve the Sybil Problem, which has no widely-accepted solution.

woodruffw 3y ago

> IMO social media should age check by law. They do[1]. Most social media sites in the US don't allow children under 13 to use their sites, as a matter of policy. There have been proposals to expand COPPA to other forms of tracking and to children under 16. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Online_Privacy_Prot...

brandon272 3y ago
To be clear, “age checking” involves nothing more than having the user enter their birthdate via a datepicker. Not exactly the same kind of verification used for things like cigarettes or alcohol.
- woodruffw 3y ago
  Right. The alternative would be mandatory identification to websites, which would be a gross violation of user privacy, and impossible under the US’s current ID schemes.
- izacus 3y ago
  You can use parental tools to disable these apps. Demanding thar whole world uploads private IDs to sites to check age because you refuse to parent well is absurd.

nonethewiser 3y ago

We expect youtube to moderate content for kids. And they do a pretty good job. There is no reason Facebook, TikTok, etc should be exempt. Problem for TikTok is the very nature of it is whats bad for kids. Shortens attention span.

izacus 3y ago
What are the American parents doing then? They just let corporations raise their kids and choose what they can see?
- boppo1 3y ago
  Yes.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  Parents can’t do it alone and parents are probably more active in their kids lives than ever. Compare todays parents to a generation that was kicked out of the house until sunset.