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It was very clear from where? https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/sars-cov-2-transmission.html#:~:text=Exposure%20occurs%20in%20th

It was very clear from where? https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/sars-cov-2-transmission.html#:~:text=Exposure%20occurs%20in%20three%20principal,hands%20that%20have%20been%20soiled https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-br...

revelio 3y ago
It was clear by March 2020 when the passengers on the Diamond Princess were all locked down in their cabins and COVID didn't care at all, managing to infect people all over the ship essentially at random. This is only possible if it is able to spread long distances via the air; if transmission were droplet or surface based that would have ended the outbreak immediately. Please don't cite the CDC for anything, they're utterly discredited.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > they're utterly discredited. I see no reason to think that. Sure, mistakes were made (as is expected), but utterly discredited? That's a bit over the top.
  - lesuorac 3y ago
    Not utterly discredited but definitely consider their press releases with the same amount of skepticism as a corporate press release. Like from now on, if they say "its not airborne" assume "it can transmit in the air" (i.e. droplets or by insects). If they say "there's no evidence of X" assume "We don't think X is false".
- Scoundreller 3y ago
  > were all locked down in their cabins and COVID didn't care at all, managing to infect people all over the ship essentially at random. I wonder how much of this could be explained by multiple day incubation times and an asymptomatic infection being spread to cabin-mates. > This is only possible if it is able to spread long distances via the air Or people infected others filtering in and out of the same close quarters that are poorly ventilated (e.g. elevators and public bathrooms). Doesn’t even require you to be in there at the same time if it can float around for a few hours. My (still valid) joke about the pandemic is to always be upwind of whomever you’re in contact with. 6’/2M apart didn’t matter.
  - revelio 3y ago
    They weren't allowed out of their cabins iirc, so public bathrooms and elevators were not really relevant. It was almost certainly spreading through the ventilation system and possibly drainage systems.
slily 3y ago
Obstinate appeal to authority to shut down dissenters is exactly how it took years for "The Science" to catch up to what had been obvious from the available data since 2020. From the masks to the social distancing, to denial of natural immunity and of vaccine side-effects. I agree with the sibling commentator - to anyone who was actually paying attention and considered the evidence from a variety of trustworthy sources, the CDC has been propagating false narratives the whole time and was absurdly slow to correct them, leading to plenty of awful, damaging policies.
- wewtyflakes 3y ago
  When the unknowns were high, it seems reasonable that we would err on the side of caution, including using hand sanitizer. I do not see it as insanity, but rather a reasonable thing to do given the unknowns were high at the time.
  - slily 3y ago
    There's some nuance there. The situation was not nearly as "unknown" as the CDC advocates would like to believe, and the international community provided plenty of evidence for individuals to make more informed decisions. Even early on, the number of case reports of people getting sick despite following recommended practices or not having any contact with potentially contaminated objects made the droplet thesis dubious. I don't recall ever seeing convincing evidence that COVID-19 could be transmitted through produce in grocery stores for example... yet for a while people were told to disinfect them before using, and many avoided restaurants due to the perceived risk of contaminated food. I'll give you that for vulnerable populations it might have made sense in the early days of the pandemic to follow the most neurotic guidelines in an abundance of caution, but again, it took government agencies far longer than necessary to update their recommendations. And let's not forget the flip-flopping about masks which contradicted the available data even at the time. The CDC was still peddling unproven and disproved claims as of last year at least, and that's how the United States was practically the last country on Earth to maintain pointless mandates, like vaccination for international travelers, far longer than even other countries that acted more aggressively prior like Canada and Australia. The CDC was quick to make imprudent recommendations that led to authoritarian policies, and slow to retract them when they were shown to be presumptuous, so as far as I'm concerned that's grounds enough to consider them "discredited", in the sense that I'll be skeptical of what they publish in the future instead of taking their recommendations at face value.

revelio 3y ago

It was clear by March 2020 when the passengers on the Diamond Princess were all locked down in their cabins and COVID didn't care at all, managing to infect people all over the ship essentially at random. This is only possible if it is able to spread long distances via the air; if transmission were droplet or surface based that would have ended the outbreak immediately. Please don't cite the CDC for anything, they're utterly discredited.

JohnFen 3y ago
> they're utterly discredited. I see no reason to think that. Sure, mistakes were made (as is expected), but utterly discredited? That's a bit over the top.
- lesuorac 3y ago
  Not utterly discredited but definitely consider their press releases with the same amount of skepticism as a corporate press release. Like from now on, if they say "its not airborne" assume "it can transmit in the air" (i.e. droplets or by insects). If they say "there's no evidence of X" assume "We don't think X is false".
Scoundreller 3y ago
> were all locked down in their cabins and COVID didn't care at all, managing to infect people all over the ship essentially at random. I wonder how much of this could be explained by multiple day incubation times and an asymptomatic infection being spread to cabin-mates. > This is only possible if it is able to spread long distances via the air Or people infected others filtering in and out of the same close quarters that are poorly ventilated (e.g. elevators and public bathrooms). Doesn’t even require you to be in there at the same time if it can float around for a few hours. My (still valid) joke about the pandemic is to always be upwind of whomever you’re in contact with. 6’/2M apart didn’t matter.
- revelio 3y ago
  They weren't allowed out of their cabins iirc, so public bathrooms and elevators were not really relevant. It was almost certainly spreading through the ventilation system and possibly drainage systems.

slily 3y ago

Obstinate appeal to authority to shut down dissenters is exactly how it took years for "The Science" to catch up to what had been obvious from the available data since 2020. From the masks to the social distancing, to denial of natural immunity and of vaccine side-effects. I agree with the sibling commentator - to anyone who was actually paying attention and considered the evidence from a variety of trustworthy sources, the CDC has been propagating false narratives the whole time and was absurdly slow to correct them, leading to plenty of awful, damaging policies.

wewtyflakes 3y ago
When the unknowns were high, it seems reasonable that we would err on the side of caution, including using hand sanitizer. I do not see it as insanity, but rather a reasonable thing to do given the unknowns were high at the time.
- slily 3y ago
  There's some nuance there. The situation was not nearly as "unknown" as the CDC advocates would like to believe, and the international community provided plenty of evidence for individuals to make more informed decisions. Even early on, the number of case reports of people getting sick despite following recommended practices or not having any contact with potentially contaminated objects made the droplet thesis dubious. I don't recall ever seeing convincing evidence that COVID-19 could be transmitted through produce in grocery stores for example... yet for a while people were told to disinfect them before using, and many avoided restaurants due to the perceived risk of contaminated food. I'll give you that for vulnerable populations it might have made sense in the early days of the pandemic to follow the most neurotic guidelines in an abundance of caution, but again, it took government agencies far longer than necessary to update their recommendations. And let's not forget the flip-flopping about masks which contradicted the available data even at the time. The CDC was still peddling unproven and disproved claims as of last year at least, and that's how the United States was practically the last country on Earth to maintain pointless mandates, like vaccination for international travelers, far longer than even other countries that acted more aggressively prior like Canada and Australia. The CDC was quick to make imprudent recommendations that led to authoritarian policies, and slow to retract them when they were shown to be presumptuous, so as far as I'm concerned that's grounds enough to consider them "discredited", in the sense that I'll be skeptical of what they publish in the future instead of taking their recommendations at face value.