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Just one aspect of the huge, tragicomic waste that resulted from the medical establishment's position that airborne transmission couldn't be real because it rem

Just one aspect of the huge, tragicomic waste that resulted from the medical establishment's position that airborne transmission couldn't be real because it reminded everyone too much of miasma theory. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ina.13070 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ina.13070

mikeyouse 3y ago
Seems like an excessively speculative theory when the alternative, "SARS1 infections were overwhelmingly driven by droplet spread and SARS-COV 2 is a close relative so we expect it to behave similarly" is right there..
- Vecr 3y ago
  That's not correct, at least in hospitals and apartment buildings there was pretty good evidence that SARS was airborne, at least over short distances. Yes, I mean actually airborne, not ballistic droplets. I'm not thinking "yeah sure I knew that" in hindsight like people quite often do, this is from research I did in 2018. I wore P100 elastomeric respirators from the start of the pandemic, I didn't question for a second that it was airborne.
dabluecaboose 3y ago
Looking back, it was crazy how much emphasis was placed on surface transmission. I remember people talking about wiping down grocery boxes left in front of their door with hand sanitizer and leaving it to sit for 72 hours before bringing it inside.
- floren 3y ago
  Man, I live in the Bay Area, and my neighbors still do this shit.
  - wincy 3y ago
    I saw someone driving alone in their car wearing a mask two days ago. I live in Kansas.
    - floren 3y ago
      Oh that's daily around here still. Absolutely baffling to me, I could handle wearing a mask when I needed to but you bet your ass I was removing it as soon as I got outside because it's really quite unpleasant. I've got a neighbor who wears a mask to move his trash can the 20 feet from the inside of his garage to the pavement just outside. He also wears the mask when driving alone in his car. COVID definitely broke some brains.
      - MyHypatia 3y ago
        Sometimes I wear a mask to keep the sun off my face or if there is a lot of pollen or dust outside.
        myko 3y ago
        I wear my respirator to mow the lawn when my allergies are bothering me. Gets some funny looks occasionally.
        vxNsr 3y ago
        Just curious to understand how does a mask over your mouth keep the sun off of your face (presumably the eyes)?
        accoil 3y ago
        Could be to stop sunburn. Hat with brim protects the top half, and keeps it out of the eyes. Mask protects the lower half.
        MyHypatia 3y ago
        Yep, I wear a hat and a mask. Keeps the sun off of most of my face. Sometimes I forget the hat or the mask and then I just wear one.
- danmaz74 3y ago
  Hindsight is 20/20
- NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
  Arguably, there may be something to this in general, because grocery stores are gross, and people handle the product in unsanitary ways, so perhaps these are good precautions even in the best of times. Even without microbial infections of grocery product, you do have to contend with pest insects such as roaches, weevils, and gnats infesting groceries. Quarantining them separately is a good way to carefully inspect to show that you're not bringing new pests into the home.
  - nradov 3y ago
    You've got to be kidding. That's just irrational germophobia. The microbes that might be carried on the surface of groceries are of zero risk to healthy people. You're exposed to a wide range of pathogens all the time without even noticing. In developed countries it's rare to find pests in store bought groceries, and even if you do so what? Eating a worm in your apple won't do you any harm. I would be more concerned about the pesticides than the pests.
loeg 3y ago
> the medical establishment's position that airborne transmission couldn't be real I remember droplets being the leading theory but do not remember a time when the medical establishment was claiming airborne transmission couldn't be real.
- revelio 3y ago
  https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00925-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00925-7 "Why the WHO took two years to say COVID is airborne Early in the pandemic, the World Health Organization stated that SARS-CoV-2 was not transmitted through the air. That mistake and the prolonged process of correcting it sowed confusion and raises questions about what will happen in the next pandemic."
  - loeg 3y ago
    > the World Health Organization stated that SARS-CoV-2 was not transmitted through the air. I mean, I don't believe the WHO actually stated that in those terms. This is probably a paraphrase of a more nuanced statement that erases the nuance.
    - gowld 3y ago
      Unfortunately, you are incorrect, as a half-dozen comments in this thread have shared.
    - GeekyBear 3y ago
      >In March, W.H.O. denied outright that Covid-19 was airborne, posting on social media, “FACT: #COVID19 is NOT airborne,” and calling it “misinformation.” We and our colleagues, scientists and engineers who have studied airborne particles for our entire careers, met with W.H.O. in April 2020 to express our concern that airborne transmission was important in the spread of COVID-19. W.H.O. vehemently rejected our suggestion and painted us as trespassers who did not understand what was happening in hospitals. https://time.com/6162065/covid-19-airborne-transmission-confusion/ https://time.com/6162065/covid-19-airborne-transmission-conf...
danmaz74 3y ago
"Couldn't be real" is a complete misinterpretation of the paper. The "medical establishment" asserts that many diseases are transmitted by aerosol (ie very small droplets), but many more - and especially those similar to covid-19 - are transmitted by larger droplets, which travel less far. This isn't anything trivial as your comment makes it look like.
- neoflame 3y ago
  Citation 3 of the linked paper is https://twitter.com/who/status/1243972193169616898 https://twitter.com/who/status/1243972193169616898. I don't see how a tweet by the WHO beginning with "FACT: #COVID19 is NOT airborne" can be construed as anything but a denial that COVID-19 is airborne.
  - burnished 3y ago
    They were referencing this >the medical establishment's position that airborne transmission couldn't be real because it reminded everyone too much of miasma theory In the post they were responding to
  - gowld 3y ago
    WHO is a political organization, not medical establishment. Chinese Communist Party has veto power over WHO's statements.
- sampo 3y ago
  > especially those similar to covid-19 - are transmitted by larger droplets, which travel less far. The medical establishment believed that (some may still believe). But it is not true. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abd9149 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abd9149

mikeyouse 3y ago

Seems like an excessively speculative theory when the alternative, "SARS1 infections were overwhelmingly driven by droplet spread and SARS-COV 2 is a close relative so we expect it to behave similarly" is right there..

Vecr 3y ago
That's not correct, at least in hospitals and apartment buildings there was pretty good evidence that SARS was airborne, at least over short distances. Yes, I mean actually airborne, not ballistic droplets. I'm not thinking "yeah sure I knew that" in hindsight like people quite often do, this is from research I did in 2018. I wore P100 elastomeric respirators from the start of the pandemic, I didn't question for a second that it was airborne.

dabluecaboose 3y ago

Looking back, it was crazy how much emphasis was placed on surface transmission. I remember people talking about wiping down grocery boxes left in front of their door with hand sanitizer and leaving it to sit for 72 hours before bringing it inside.

floren 3y ago
Man, I live in the Bay Area, and my neighbors still do this shit.
- wincy 3y ago
  I saw someone driving alone in their car wearing a mask two days ago. I live in Kansas.
  - floren 3y ago
    Oh that's daily around here still. Absolutely baffling to me, I could handle wearing a mask when I needed to but you bet your ass I was removing it as soon as I got outside because it's really quite unpleasant. I've got a neighbor who wears a mask to move his trash can the 20 feet from the inside of his garage to the pavement just outside. He also wears the mask when driving alone in his car. COVID definitely broke some brains.
    - MyHypatia 3y ago
      Sometimes I wear a mask to keep the sun off my face or if there is a lot of pollen or dust outside.
      - myko 3y ago
        I wear my respirator to mow the lawn when my allergies are bothering me. Gets some funny looks occasionally.
      - vxNsr 3y ago
        Just curious to understand how does a mask over your mouth keep the sun off of your face (presumably the eyes)?
        accoil 3y ago
        Could be to stop sunburn. Hat with brim protects the top half, and keeps it out of the eyes. Mask protects the lower half.
        MyHypatia 3y ago
        Yep, I wear a hat and a mask. Keeps the sun off of most of my face. Sometimes I forget the hat or the mask and then I just wear one.
danmaz74 3y ago
Hindsight is 20/20
NoZebra120vClip 3y ago
Arguably, there may be something to this in general, because grocery stores are gross, and people handle the product in unsanitary ways, so perhaps these are good precautions even in the best of times. Even without microbial infections of grocery product, you do have to contend with pest insects such as roaches, weevils, and gnats infesting groceries. Quarantining them separately is a good way to carefully inspect to show that you're not bringing new pests into the home.
- nradov 3y ago
  You've got to be kidding. That's just irrational germophobia. The microbes that might be carried on the surface of groceries are of zero risk to healthy people. You're exposed to a wide range of pathogens all the time without even noticing. In developed countries it's rare to find pests in store bought groceries, and even if you do so what? Eating a worm in your apple won't do you any harm. I would be more concerned about the pesticides than the pests.

loeg 3y ago

> the medical establishment's position that airborne transmission couldn't be real I remember droplets being the leading theory but do not remember a time when the medical establishment was claiming airborne transmission couldn't be real.

revelio 3y ago
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00925-7 https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-00925-7 "Why the WHO took two years to say COVID is airborne Early in the pandemic, the World Health Organization stated that SARS-CoV-2 was not transmitted through the air. That mistake and the prolonged process of correcting it sowed confusion and raises questions about what will happen in the next pandemic."
- loeg 3y ago
  > the World Health Organization stated that SARS-CoV-2 was not transmitted through the air. I mean, I don't believe the WHO actually stated that in those terms. This is probably a paraphrase of a more nuanced statement that erases the nuance.
  - gowld 3y ago
    Unfortunately, you are incorrect, as a half-dozen comments in this thread have shared.
  - GeekyBear 3y ago
    >In March, W.H.O. denied outright that Covid-19 was airborne, posting on social media, “FACT: #COVID19 is NOT airborne,” and calling it “misinformation.” We and our colleagues, scientists and engineers who have studied airborne particles for our entire careers, met with W.H.O. in April 2020 to express our concern that airborne transmission was important in the spread of COVID-19. W.H.O. vehemently rejected our suggestion and painted us as trespassers who did not understand what was happening in hospitals. https://time.com/6162065/covid-19-airborne-transmission-confusion/ https://time.com/6162065/covid-19-airborne-transmission-conf...

danmaz74 3y ago

"Couldn't be real" is a complete misinterpretation of the paper. The "medical establishment" asserts that many diseases are transmitted by aerosol (ie very small droplets), but many more - and especially those similar to covid-19 - are transmitted by larger droplets, which travel less far. This isn't anything trivial as your comment makes it look like.

neoflame 3y ago
Citation 3 of the linked paper is https://twitter.com/who/status/1243972193169616898 https://twitter.com/who/status/1243972193169616898. I don't see how a tweet by the WHO beginning with "FACT: #COVID19 is NOT airborne" can be construed as anything but a denial that COVID-19 is airborne.
- burnished 3y ago
  They were referencing this >the medical establishment's position that airborne transmission couldn't be real because it reminded everyone too much of miasma theory In the post they were responding to
- gowld 3y ago
  WHO is a political organization, not medical establishment. Chinese Communist Party has veto power over WHO's statements.
sampo 3y ago
> especially those similar to covid-19 - are transmitted by larger droplets, which travel less far. The medical establishment believed that (some may still believe). But it is not true. https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abd9149 https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abd9149