10 ms·

No, the joke is on us MacOS users who insist on its terrible Alt-Tab behavior instead of leaning into the gesture support. But I do believe the gesture support

No, the joke is on us MacOS users who insist on its terrible Alt-Tab behavior instead of leaning into the gesture support. But I do believe the gesture support has fundamental limitations: 1) you have to take your keys off the home row to render gestures. Not good! 2) gesture window switching / Exposé breaks down when you have too many windows open: the thumbnails become unrecognizably small. 3) to solve the above problem, perhaps you suggest using spaces. Well, MacOS's spaces support is also frustrating. It's impossible to turn off the animation and time lag switching between spaces! Sure, it's only a half-second, but a half-second repeated hundreds of times adds up. And spaces's interaction with alt-tab is totally broken: if you're using a given app (say Chrome), switch to another space where Chrome is also open, and then try to alt-tab back, it doesn't take you back to the last window you had open. Sad!

nerdjon 3y ago
As far as those limitations go. 1) That would also be true if you are switching to nearly any GUI based app that you need the mouse except for maybe if you are switching to a text editor but I doubt every time you switch apps you are immediately typing something, so not really sure I see the problem there. 2) True, maybe I just don't tend to have a ton of windows open at the same time. 3) I can't really speak on how it behaves with alt-tab however with the track pad it is as fast as you swipe and tied to that swipe. I can slow it down or speed it up.
cmiller1 3y ago
I love the mac alt-tab behavior, you just move your finger up one key to switch between windows in the current app grouping them nicely unlike Windows where they're all a big mishmash.
- kristiandupont 3y ago
  Hah, my perspective is the exact opposite! On Windows, there is a nicely and predictably maintained Z-order, whereas MacOS insists that if I want to switch focus, surely I want all the windows that the other app has to offer, which feels like a big "mishmash" to me.
  - abawany 3y ago
    I agree as well, which is why I've used HyperSwitch for many years. It restore most of the goodness of the Windows focus switching experience with a defined keybinding.
  - laserlight 3y ago
    > MacOS insists that if I want to switch focus, surely I want all the windows that the other app has to offer, which feels like a but mishmash to me. This had not been the case. Command tabbing would bring forward only the last active window. It was very handy to switch back and forth between text editor and browser that way. But then, they decided command tab should bring forward all windows, which ruined usability for me. Now I use BetterTouchTool [0] to directly switch to an app. Doing so brings forward only the last active window. [0] https://folivora.ai https://folivora.ai
    - AnonC 3y ago
      Pleas elaborate on how exactly you do this using BTT. I have used it a little bit, but haven’t gone beyond mapping one or two things.
      - laserlight 3y ago
        My pleasure. Even though BTT is conceptually very simple (input method triggers trigger actions), implementation is very detailed. First, add a new keyboard shortcut trigger for “All Apps”. Choose a key combo that you prefer. I'm using a programmable keyboard that has a dedicated key corresponding to key combo CTRL+SHIFT+OPTION+CMD (a.k.a. super), which doesn't collide with system key combos. You are free to choose anything that suits you. For instance, to switch to Safari, I hit SUPER+S. For corresponding action, choose “Launch Application / Open File / ...” and choose Safari from the box below. When Safari is already running, this action will switch focus to Safari's most recently focused window and will not bring other windows of it to foreground. That's all. Set up other key combos for other applications as well. I have many set up. SUPER+T is for Terminal, SUPER+E is for Emacs. Switching between most recent windows of these apps should now be very easy and fast.
- nicoburns 3y ago
  My issue with this behaviour is that I often don't want my windows to be grouped by app. I want to be able to group windows by project, and I may want to have multiple projects in the same set of apps. Workspaces (virtual desktops) ought to be perfect for this, but there is no way to get alt-tab like switching between windows in a desktop on macOS.
  - 8ytecoder 3y ago
    It also breaks down when you have a full screen window and a normal window. It's so jarring.
    - Tagbert 3y ago
      One more reason to avoid the dead end of full screen windows.
  - derrasterpunkt 3y ago
    We’ll that’s the thing. Windows is based around windows and macOS is based around applications. I get that you want to use macOS like you use windows but that is the historical usage of these UI.
    - rhaway84773 3y ago
      Except when windows behave like apps and you close a window and it closes the app. Or it’s a single window app but closing the window does not close the app. Or when you full screen a window and now everything is inconsistent. Or when you use Mission Control and now the switching paradigm is based on Windows and not Apps.
    - AnonC 3y ago
      Even Apple’s own applications break the “it’s an app and not a window” paradigm in many instances. Without trying, there’s no way to tell if clicking on the close button will quit the app or just close that window even for apps that only use a single window.
    - 3y ago
- patrickserrano 3y ago
  Came here to say the same thing! Whenever I'm using my work PC the alt-tab behavior of windows drives me nuts.
satrday 3y ago
For 3, enable Reduce Motion under System Settings > Accessibility > Display. This makes switching spaces and windows nearly instant with no animation. I don't notice whatever else lost animations...so I don't miss them. Worth a try!
- mrbabbage 3y ago
  That turns off the animation but leaves the time delay in place. E.g. if you have a text field selected in the target window, any typing you do won't register until the fade in—fade out animation completes (exact same behavior as with the option disabled, but with the fade animation instead of the slide animation).
  - joshspankit 3y ago
    This. Apple hard-codes “while lies” to make the experience smoother for those with slower devices, but they end up getting in the way if you want the UI to run fast. It’s like having triple-buffering and vsync enabled all the time. Less chance of it looking broken, but not worth the tradeoff for those that feed on responsiveness.
    - jbverschoor 3y ago
      The delay is caused by the fact that there’s different behavior between cmd-tab short and longer press. Sorry will not open the horizontal list of apps. It’s similar to the delay you have with double tap detection
carimura 3y ago
The space animation lag is mind boggling. Not only is it a half second, but it locks keypress until finished. Any Apple devs (or anyone) here who can comment about why they removed the expose-animation-duration option?
- vehemenz 3y ago
  I'd love some insight, too. I was just trying to disable the delay this morning. Even with the "Reduce Motion" option checked, the delay is too long.
  - fathyb 3y ago
    I went through the same and ended up disabling ProMotion on my 16 MBP because a bug makes this animation run twice as long on 120 FPS screens.
    - carimura 3y ago
      that does work but what other downstream impact will this have? Not familiar with ProMotion.
- temende 3y ago
  If you install yabai (https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai) it has a feature that can completely disable spaces switching animations - but it does require partially disabling SIP (worth it for yabai, IMO).
- ubercow13 3y ago
  If you change spaces using the keyboard shortcuts like Ctrl+1,2 etc. (they might not be set to that by default.. it's 'Switch to Desktop 1' etc in the settings), then there is still a shorter animation, and there is no input delay when switching.
wlesieutre 3y ago
Re: 2), it's particularly painful if you need the "reduce motion" accessibility setting. Instead of shrinking down from their current positions where you might glimpse a window mid-animation and see where it's going, you get a fade effect from full size windows straight to unreadably small windows.
aldanor 3y ago
The solution (although somewhat rough around the edges, but much, much better than other options) is to use a tiling window manager like Yabai. It will completely change the way you work with windows and spaces in macOS. This definitely solves your (1), especially with the help of `skhd` to map your keyboard shortcuts. Another option is Amethyst but it's a bit less configurable (although it supports stack layout for windows). (3) can also be solved. Go to system preferences -> accessibility, check the "Reduce motion" checkbox. Now the spaces can be switched almost instantly without the annoying animation by using keyboard shortcuts.

nerdjon 3y ago

As far as those limitations go. 1) That would also be true if you are switching to nearly any GUI based app that you need the mouse except for maybe if you are switching to a text editor but I doubt every time you switch apps you are immediately typing something, so not really sure I see the problem there. 2) True, maybe I just don't tend to have a ton of windows open at the same time. 3) I can't really speak on how it behaves with alt-tab however with the track pad it is as fast as you swipe and tied to that swipe. I can slow it down or speed it up.

cmiller1 3y ago

I love the mac alt-tab behavior, you just move your finger up one key to switch between windows in the current app grouping them nicely unlike Windows where they're all a big mishmash.

kristiandupont 3y ago
Hah, my perspective is the exact opposite! On Windows, there is a nicely and predictably maintained Z-order, whereas MacOS insists that if I want to switch focus, surely I want all the windows that the other app has to offer, which feels like a big "mishmash" to me.
- abawany 3y ago
  I agree as well, which is why I've used HyperSwitch for many years. It restore most of the goodness of the Windows focus switching experience with a defined keybinding.
- laserlight 3y ago
  > MacOS insists that if I want to switch focus, surely I want all the windows that the other app has to offer, which feels like a but mishmash to me. This had not been the case. Command tabbing would bring forward only the last active window. It was very handy to switch back and forth between text editor and browser that way. But then, they decided command tab should bring forward all windows, which ruined usability for me. Now I use BetterTouchTool [0] to directly switch to an app. Doing so brings forward only the last active window. [0] https://folivora.ai https://folivora.ai
  - AnonC 3y ago
    Pleas elaborate on how exactly you do this using BTT. I have used it a little bit, but haven’t gone beyond mapping one or two things.
    - laserlight 3y ago
      My pleasure. Even though BTT is conceptually very simple (input method triggers trigger actions), implementation is very detailed. First, add a new keyboard shortcut trigger for “All Apps”. Choose a key combo that you prefer. I'm using a programmable keyboard that has a dedicated key corresponding to key combo CTRL+SHIFT+OPTION+CMD (a.k.a. super), which doesn't collide with system key combos. You are free to choose anything that suits you. For instance, to switch to Safari, I hit SUPER+S. For corresponding action, choose “Launch Application / Open File / ...” and choose Safari from the box below. When Safari is already running, this action will switch focus to Safari's most recently focused window and will not bring other windows of it to foreground. That's all. Set up other key combos for other applications as well. I have many set up. SUPER+T is for Terminal, SUPER+E is for Emacs. Switching between most recent windows of these apps should now be very easy and fast.
nicoburns 3y ago
My issue with this behaviour is that I often don't want my windows to be grouped by app. I want to be able to group windows by project, and I may want to have multiple projects in the same set of apps. Workspaces (virtual desktops) ought to be perfect for this, but there is no way to get alt-tab like switching between windows in a desktop on macOS.
- 8ytecoder 3y ago
  It also breaks down when you have a full screen window and a normal window. It's so jarring.
  - Tagbert 3y ago
    One more reason to avoid the dead end of full screen windows.
- derrasterpunkt 3y ago
  We’ll that’s the thing. Windows is based around windows and macOS is based around applications. I get that you want to use macOS like you use windows but that is the historical usage of these UI.
  - rhaway84773 3y ago
    Except when windows behave like apps and you close a window and it closes the app. Or it’s a single window app but closing the window does not close the app. Or when you full screen a window and now everything is inconsistent. Or when you use Mission Control and now the switching paradigm is based on Windows and not Apps.
  - AnonC 3y ago
    Even Apple’s own applications break the “it’s an app and not a window” paradigm in many instances. Without trying, there’s no way to tell if clicking on the close button will quit the app or just close that window even for apps that only use a single window.
  - 3y ago
patrickserrano 3y ago
Came here to say the same thing! Whenever I'm using my work PC the alt-tab behavior of windows drives me nuts.

satrday 3y ago

For 3, enable Reduce Motion under System Settings > Accessibility > Display. This makes switching spaces and windows nearly instant with no animation. I don't notice whatever else lost animations...so I don't miss them. Worth a try!

mrbabbage 3y ago
That turns off the animation but leaves the time delay in place. E.g. if you have a text field selected in the target window, any typing you do won't register until the fade in—fade out animation completes (exact same behavior as with the option disabled, but with the fade animation instead of the slide animation).
- joshspankit 3y ago
  This. Apple hard-codes “while lies” to make the experience smoother for those with slower devices, but they end up getting in the way if you want the UI to run fast. It’s like having triple-buffering and vsync enabled all the time. Less chance of it looking broken, but not worth the tradeoff for those that feed on responsiveness.
  - jbverschoor 3y ago
    The delay is caused by the fact that there’s different behavior between cmd-tab short and longer press. Sorry will not open the horizontal list of apps. It’s similar to the delay you have with double tap detection

carimura 3y ago

The space animation lag is mind boggling. Not only is it a half second, but it locks keypress until finished. Any Apple devs (or anyone) here who can comment about why they removed the expose-animation-duration option?

vehemenz 3y ago
I'd love some insight, too. I was just trying to disable the delay this morning. Even with the "Reduce Motion" option checked, the delay is too long.
- fathyb 3y ago
  I went through the same and ended up disabling ProMotion on my 16 MBP because a bug makes this animation run twice as long on 120 FPS screens.
  - carimura 3y ago
    that does work but what other downstream impact will this have? Not familiar with ProMotion.
temende 3y ago
If you install yabai (https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai) it has a feature that can completely disable spaces switching animations - but it does require partially disabling SIP (worth it for yabai, IMO).
ubercow13 3y ago
If you change spaces using the keyboard shortcuts like Ctrl+1,2 etc. (they might not be set to that by default.. it's 'Switch to Desktop 1' etc in the settings), then there is still a shorter animation, and there is no input delay when switching.

wlesieutre 3y ago

Re: 2), it's particularly painful if you need the "reduce motion" accessibility setting. Instead of shrinking down from their current positions where you might glimpse a window mid-animation and see where it's going, you get a fade effect from full size windows straight to unreadably small windows.

aldanor 3y ago

The solution (although somewhat rough around the edges, but much, much better than other options) is to use a tiling window manager like Yabai. It will completely change the way you work with windows and spaces in macOS. This definitely solves your (1), especially with the help of `skhd` to map your keyboard shortcuts. Another option is Amethyst but it's a bit less configurable (although it supports stack layout for windows). (3) can also be solved. Go to system preferences -> accessibility, check the "Reduce motion" checkbox. Now the spaces can be switched almost instantly without the annoying animation by using keyboard shortcuts.