4 ms·

I’m sure I’m in the minority, but Stage Manager addressed nearly all of my window management woes on the Mac.

chrisfinazzo 3y ago
It's an interesting take, but I'm not sure how this deals with multiple windows if all the demos show a primary, active window and everything else "offstage." I don't need to just see those other windows and their contents, I want to interact with them as well, which SM doesn't seem to do.
- anileated 3y ago
  I found that cases where I need multiple windows at the same time are actually quite rare in my work. Turned out seeing only the window I work with right now is actually what I needed 90% of the time, so this default behavior is a win. For the remaining 10%, SM makes it easy to combine windows into a set (this is so far the only instance where I use the new “recent applications” widget, I set it to auto-hide so it never distracts me otherwise). Then with cmd+` you can switch between windows in the same set (even if they are of different apps). You can also tile windows in your set with something like Rectangle, etc.—just make sure not to over-craft sets, they are ephemeral after all. The ephemeral nature of window sets used to bother me initially—I wanted to persist them across restarts—but after I realized I really focus on one window 90% of the time, and creating ad-hoc window sets is very quick, I no longer find it an issue.
  - rcarmo 3y ago
    But unlike on the iPad, you can’t switch between sets with a hotkey—Apple really dropped the ball on that one.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - anileated 3y ago
      I don’t use SM on iPad, I find it overkill, but maybe that’s because I don’t connect a keyboard. I’m not sure what you mean about switching between sets. On macOS, any action that focuses any window (like command-tab) switches you to its window set. Do you mean on iPad you can assign individual shortcuts or use numbers to switch between window sets?
      - rcarmo 3y ago
        On iPad you have hotkeys to switch between sets.
        anileated 3y ago
        This does not answer my question as to how it works, can you assign a hotkey to switch to a specific set, you use numbers to switch to sets in order of recent use, etc.?
        rcarmo 3y ago
        You only get next and previous window sets using the “world” and cursor keys.
  - chrisfinazzo 3y ago
    What I'm really thinking about is something approaching Snap Layouts from Windows 11. SM kinda, sorta does this, but the layout isn't as nice as what Microsoft did, hence the complaints. I would argue that the idea that windows are ephemeral doesn't work for all windows in all situations - I'm almost always going to want a window with BBEdit, another with Terminal cd'd to the current project (whatever I might be doing, and there likely will be a fair number of these, more than 1 at least), plus a web browser with email/documentation. Admittedly, some of my complaints come from having my current setup with a DisplayPort hub and 2 HP displays, yet not having the horsepower to drive them each as independent screens. It's a holdover from a previous setup when there actually was a Windows machine in the mix. Apple seems to begrudingly acknowledge that people might actually have more than one display in their setup, so features like this sometimes feel incomplete. See also - the "bug" in prior versions of Spaces which didn't account for multiple monitors correctly. A simple oversight that shows they think about this kind of use last, if at all.
    - anileated 3y ago
      > I would argue that the idea that windows are ephemeral doesn't work for all windows in all situations - I'm almost always going to want a window with BBEdit, another with Terminal cd'd to the current project (whatever I might be doing, and there likely will be a fair number of these, more than 1 at least), plus a web browser with email/documentation. I thought so, too. However, turns out I work better when I see either an editor window, a terminal window, or a web browser, but not all at the same time. Meaning even if I had them all on screen, every moment in time I really focus only on one, and I do it for minutes at a time—all others meanwhile are visual junk. So SM does just that: focus one window at a time by default, and because command-tab is so readily available switching between full focus on one window to full focus on another window is very fast. In my case, I could create a multi-window set where I have all of those windows very large and exactly same size (e.g., with Rectangle’s “almost full-screen” feature), and then I would get a bonus way of switching just between those windows (through command-`). I might try it some time. There are few cases so far where I create multi-window sets arranged so that I see windows simultaneously, for example: 1) when I need to drag things between them repeatedly, such as when organizing files (e.g., moving photography between my SD card, SSD and HDD), or 2) when I’m observing multiple long-running processes in terminal but didn’t bother to run Tmux in the beginning so now I am stuck multiple Terminal windows and I want to see progress in them all. Turns out such cases are pretty rare. That said, I don’t use multiple displays, I work on laptop and that probably informs my use case.
Veen 3y ago
I tried stage manager for about five minutes before I turned it off because it seriously hindered my workflow. Perhaps I should give it another try.
- anileated 3y ago
  Had the same initial reaction. Had to tweak settings a bit (e.g., set recent apps to auto-hide) and create a mental model of window sets before it clicked. My mental model of window sets: — A window always belongs to one set, with two exceptions: 1) global ephemeral windows like “About This Mac” (they appear in all sets on current desktop) and 2) windows assigned to all desktops via Dock (they appear in all sets and on all desktops). — You are always “in” a set, even if it’s a 1-set with only this window alone, and you don’t see any windows not in the current set (other than the exceptions above). You can only glimpse other windows via Recent applications, Mission Control, and so on. Managing window sets: — Creating a window always drops you into a fresh set with that window alone. While jarring at first, it’s key to me—with a new window I start doing something different and don’t need the distracting baggage of whatever was on screen before that. Can always add windows later (see below). — Any way that focuses a window now also drops you into its entire window set. This includes: Mission Control (which like before operates individual windows, not sets), ⌘+tab, clicking on app’s Dock icon, window switch from within the app, and so on. — If you switch to another window set while dragging a window, that window becomes part of the set when you release the drag. — To remove a window from a multi-window set (creating a new set with only that window alone), long-press the maximize window button and click “Remove Window from Set”. Recent apps: — “Recent applications” shows two kinds of things: 1) multi-window sets you created (last focused window on top), and 2) solo window sets grouped by application. — Recent applications list is scoped to windows on current desktop and excludes the window set you are currently working in. — You can interact with Recent apps in three ways: 1) click on a set to switch to it, focusing topmost window; 2) click on any app’s icon to show up to 18 recently used window sets with any of that app’s windows; 3) drag the topmost window from any visible set into current set. — I set it to auto-hide, I only need it when I need to add another window to the current set. By the way, ⌘+` now works in two ways: 1) if you are in a set of multiple windows, it will switch between windows in the set (regardless of the app); 2) if you are viewing a solo window, it switches between other solo windows of the app (close to old behavior). This all might sound complex but a couple hours in it works quite intuitively, I find.
vehemenz 3y ago
I like Stage Manager, but I can't get it to play nicely with multiple screens and Rectangle.app. Its behavior is too unpredictable, and I'm not sure how to make it work. Do you have any tips?
- anileated 3y ago
  I don’t use multiple screens, and I no longer use multiple virtual desktops either, but I outlined my mental model of Stage Manager in a response to another comment if it helps. I do still use Rectangle occasionally.

It's an interesting take, but I'm not sure how this deals with multiple windows if all the demos show a primary, active window and everything else "offstage." I don't need to just see those other windows and their contents, I want to interact with them as well, which SM doesn't seem to do.

anileated 3y ago
I found that cases where I need multiple windows at the same time are actually quite rare in my work. Turned out seeing only the window I work with right now is actually what I needed 90% of the time, so this default behavior is a win. For the remaining 10%, SM makes it easy to combine windows into a set (this is so far the only instance where I use the new “recent applications” widget, I set it to auto-hide so it never distracts me otherwise). Then with cmd+` you can switch between windows in the same set (even if they are of different apps). You can also tile windows in your set with something like Rectangle, etc.—just make sure not to over-craft sets, they are ephemeral after all. The ephemeral nature of window sets used to bother me initially—I wanted to persist them across restarts—but after I realized I really focus on one window 90% of the time, and creating ad-hoc window sets is very quick, I no longer find it an issue.
- rcarmo 3y ago
  But unlike on the iPad, you can’t switch between sets with a hotkey—Apple really dropped the ball on that one.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - anileated 3y ago
    I don’t use SM on iPad, I find it overkill, but maybe that’s because I don’t connect a keyboard. I’m not sure what you mean about switching between sets. On macOS, any action that focuses any window (like command-tab) switches you to its window set. Do you mean on iPad you can assign individual shortcuts or use numbers to switch between window sets?
    - rcarmo 3y ago
      On iPad you have hotkeys to switch between sets.
      - anileated 3y ago
        This does not answer my question as to how it works, can you assign a hotkey to switch to a specific set, you use numbers to switch to sets in order of recent use, etc.?
        rcarmo 3y ago
        You only get next and previous window sets using the “world” and cursor keys.
- chrisfinazzo 3y ago
  What I'm really thinking about is something approaching Snap Layouts from Windows 11. SM kinda, sorta does this, but the layout isn't as nice as what Microsoft did, hence the complaints. I would argue that the idea that windows are ephemeral doesn't work for all windows in all situations - I'm almost always going to want a window with BBEdit, another with Terminal cd'd to the current project (whatever I might be doing, and there likely will be a fair number of these, more than 1 at least), plus a web browser with email/documentation. Admittedly, some of my complaints come from having my current setup with a DisplayPort hub and 2 HP displays, yet not having the horsepower to drive them each as independent screens. It's a holdover from a previous setup when there actually was a Windows machine in the mix. Apple seems to begrudingly acknowledge that people might actually have more than one display in their setup, so features like this sometimes feel incomplete. See also - the "bug" in prior versions of Spaces which didn't account for multiple monitors correctly. A simple oversight that shows they think about this kind of use last, if at all.
  - anileated 3y ago
    > I would argue that the idea that windows are ephemeral doesn't work for all windows in all situations - I'm almost always going to want a window with BBEdit, another with Terminal cd'd to the current project (whatever I might be doing, and there likely will be a fair number of these, more than 1 at least), plus a web browser with email/documentation. I thought so, too. However, turns out I work better when I see either an editor window, a terminal window, or a web browser, but not all at the same time. Meaning even if I had them all on screen, every moment in time I really focus only on one, and I do it for minutes at a time—all others meanwhile are visual junk. So SM does just that: focus one window at a time by default, and because command-tab is so readily available switching between full focus on one window to full focus on another window is very fast. In my case, I could create a multi-window set where I have all of those windows very large and exactly same size (e.g., with Rectangle’s “almost full-screen” feature), and then I would get a bonus way of switching just between those windows (through command-`). I might try it some time. There are few cases so far where I create multi-window sets arranged so that I see windows simultaneously, for example: 1) when I need to drag things between them repeatedly, such as when organizing files (e.g., moving photography between my SD card, SSD and HDD), or 2) when I’m observing multiple long-running processes in terminal but didn’t bother to run Tmux in the beginning so now I am stuck multiple Terminal windows and I want to see progress in them all. Turns out such cases are pretty rare. That said, I don’t use multiple displays, I work on laptop and that probably informs my use case.

Veen 3y ago

I tried stage manager for about five minutes before I turned it off because it seriously hindered my workflow. Perhaps I should give it another try.

anileated 3y ago
Had the same initial reaction. Had to tweak settings a bit (e.g., set recent apps to auto-hide) and create a mental model of window sets before it clicked. My mental model of window sets: — A window always belongs to one set, with two exceptions: 1) global ephemeral windows like “About This Mac” (they appear in all sets on current desktop) and 2) windows assigned to all desktops via Dock (they appear in all sets and on all desktops). — You are always “in” a set, even if it’s a 1-set with only this window alone, and you don’t see any windows not in the current set (other than the exceptions above). You can only glimpse other windows via Recent applications, Mission Control, and so on. Managing window sets: — Creating a window always drops you into a fresh set with that window alone. While jarring at first, it’s key to me—with a new window I start doing something different and don’t need the distracting baggage of whatever was on screen before that. Can always add windows later (see below). — Any way that focuses a window now also drops you into its entire window set. This includes: Mission Control (which like before operates individual windows, not sets), ⌘+tab, clicking on app’s Dock icon, window switch from within the app, and so on. — If you switch to another window set while dragging a window, that window becomes part of the set when you release the drag. — To remove a window from a multi-window set (creating a new set with only that window alone), long-press the maximize window button and click “Remove Window from Set”. Recent apps: — “Recent applications” shows two kinds of things: 1) multi-window sets you created (last focused window on top), and 2) solo window sets grouped by application. — Recent applications list is scoped to windows on current desktop and excludes the window set you are currently working in. — You can interact with Recent apps in three ways: 1) click on a set to switch to it, focusing topmost window; 2) click on any app’s icon to show up to 18 recently used window sets with any of that app’s windows; 3) drag the topmost window from any visible set into current set. — I set it to auto-hide, I only need it when I need to add another window to the current set. By the way, ⌘+` now works in two ways: 1) if you are in a set of multiple windows, it will switch between windows in the set (regardless of the app); 2) if you are viewing a solo window, it switches between other solo windows of the app (close to old behavior). This all might sound complex but a couple hours in it works quite intuitively, I find.

vehemenz 3y ago

I like Stage Manager, but I can't get it to play nicely with multiple screens and Rectangle.app. Its behavior is too unpredictable, and I'm not sure how to make it work. Do you have any tips?

anileated 3y ago
I don’t use multiple screens, and I no longer use multiple virtual desktops either, but I outlined my mental model of Stage Manager in a response to another comment if it helps. I do still use Rectangle occasionally.