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True, but we're seeing a measurable decline of standard of living in the west, which forces people to make sacrifices in their lifestyles. Millions of Americans

True, but we're seeing a measurable decline of standard of living in the west, which forces people to make sacrifices in their lifestyles. Millions of Americans are waking up to the fact that they're gonna be worse off in adulthood than their parents were and one of the easiest ways to try to maintain their standard of living is not to have children. It's not just about how many raised kids in squalor, it's about how many people are experiencing socioeconomic decline. It's also purely anecdotal, but anti-natalist sentiment is very much on the rise in my community. I meet more and more people concerned that bringing a child into the world now means condemning them to suffer the worst consequences of climate change. No idea if this is represented at all on a global scale, but it's very present in my area.

chii 3y ago
> seeing a measurable decline of standard of living in the west is this really true? With the exception of the covid lockdown causing issues, i've found that i've been able to acquire all my necessary material needs, and more. It is true that my purchasing power is being clawed away via inflation, but this is counteracted by wage increases and investment returns (on average).
- LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
  America has far and away the highest poverty rate of the modern world[0], there's a very strong economic divide in America. I earn about $175K as a software engineer, which easily puts me into the top 1% of income earners in my generation. Just because life is good to me does not mean that I reflect the average lifestyle in America. 0: https://confrontingpoverty.org/poverty-facts-and-myths/americas-poor-are-worse-off-than-elsewhere/ https://confrontingpoverty.org/poverty-facts-and-myths/ameri...
  - thunderbird120 3y ago
    > In this table, poverty is being measured as the percent of the population falling below one half of a particular country’s median household income. That is a measure of income inequality... not poverty. Here is a measure of inflation adjusted household income over time for to address the original point[1]. People are not getting poorer [1]https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N
    - LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
      > That is a measure of income inequality... not poverty. Same thing? What is a measure of poverty if not a measure of income inequality? The concept of poverty categorizes people who do not earn enough to live in society. How are these different?
      - chii 3y ago
        > The concept of poverty categorizes people who do not earn enough to live in society no, the concept of poverty is one where a person is dying due to a lack of basic necessities such as food, shelter. Everything else is not required, such as luxuries etc. It's just that as a country gets richer, what some people consider as basic necessities seems to expand - it has now become a basic necessity to have electricity, internet, transport - things that a hundred years ago, would've been considered the realms of the aristocracy. The distance to median income is not a measure of poverty, but a measure of how far you are from the typical person in said country - a relative measure. An absolute measure of poverty is caloric intake, access to water and shelter.
      - thunderbird120 3y ago
        Material poverty is an absolute measure, not a relative one. A country in which 100% of people earn exactly $1 a day is not somehow less poor than the United States

chii 3y ago

> seeing a measurable decline of standard of living in the west is this really true? With the exception of the covid lockdown causing issues, i've found that i've been able to acquire all my necessary material needs, and more. It is true that my purchasing power is being clawed away via inflation, but this is counteracted by wage increases and investment returns (on average).

LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
America has far and away the highest poverty rate of the modern world[0], there's a very strong economic divide in America. I earn about $175K as a software engineer, which easily puts me into the top 1% of income earners in my generation. Just because life is good to me does not mean that I reflect the average lifestyle in America. 0: https://confrontingpoverty.org/poverty-facts-and-myths/americas-poor-are-worse-off-than-elsewhere/ https://confrontingpoverty.org/poverty-facts-and-myths/ameri...
- thunderbird120 3y ago
  > In this table, poverty is being measured as the percent of the population falling below one half of a particular country’s median household income. That is a measure of income inequality... not poverty. Here is a measure of inflation adjusted household income over time for to address the original point[1]. People are not getting poorer [1]https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N
  - LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
    > That is a measure of income inequality... not poverty. Same thing? What is a measure of poverty if not a measure of income inequality? The concept of poverty categorizes people who do not earn enough to live in society. How are these different?
    - chii 3y ago
      > The concept of poverty categorizes people who do not earn enough to live in society no, the concept of poverty is one where a person is dying due to a lack of basic necessities such as food, shelter. Everything else is not required, such as luxuries etc. It's just that as a country gets richer, what some people consider as basic necessities seems to expand - it has now become a basic necessity to have electricity, internet, transport - things that a hundred years ago, would've been considered the realms of the aristocracy. The distance to median income is not a measure of poverty, but a measure of how far you are from the typical person in said country - a relative measure. An absolute measure of poverty is caloric intake, access to water and shelter.
    - thunderbird120 3y ago
      Material poverty is an absolute measure, not a relative one. A country in which 100% of people earn exactly $1 a day is not somehow less poor than the United States