4 ms·

Tesla Quietly Disconnecting Radar in Customer Cars During Service Visits

46 points by clouddrover 3y ago

m463 3y ago
I wonder what autopilot versions this applies to. AP1 only has one camera, and then has sonar and radar.
vba616 3y ago
The article mentions as a drawback of non-radar-based cruise control: "They also can't follow other vehicles quite as closely, with the following distance kicked back from one car length to two, meaning that it is easier for other vehicles to sneak ahead of them in traffic." I'm not sure exactly how to interpret this, but at highway speeds, like from 55-85 mph, Honda's adaptive cruise control allows the following distance to be set from roughly 100 to 300 feet. An "average" car length seems to be about 15 feet, so that converts to 7-20 car lengths. If Teslas really do allow following other cars at 1-2 car lengths at, say, 75 mph, that's a bit startling. I can't say I've seen one doing it though.
- kadoban 3y ago
  I assume they mean at low speeds, in stop and go traffic.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- mgrund 3y ago
  That’s not what the number means. From the manual: “Each setting corresponds to a time-based distance that represents how long it takes for Model 3, from its current location, to reach the location of the rear bumper of the vehicle ahead of you” I think it might have been in the past, at least I was told the same thing years ago. That said, it is actually an issue that it now keeps too much distance under some conditions on the lowest setting.
  - vba616 3y ago
    Two car lengths doesn't mean two car lengths? What is the conversion formula then?
- IncandescentGas 3y ago
  > meaning that it is easier for other vehicles to sneak ahead of them in traffic Changing lanes is "sneaking" now? Does somebody really think we need autonomous driving trained to block other cars from safely switching lanes?
ekux44 3y ago
Forced software/hardware downgrade to receive vehicle repair is such tyranny. Do owners that bought a car with a radar-based safety system have any recourse if they don't consent to the software & hardware disable of the radar system?
- mgrund 3y ago
  I actually filed a legal complaint about this. Ultimately the claim was rejected so no law in Denmark to protect against this [1]. Tesla was sentenced to pay me a small compensation ($800) for not getting proper consent for the update, but refuse to do so. I’ll have to take them to court to get it. [1] https://www.bilklage.dk/CMS/Upload/1/Documents/Anonymiserede%20afgørelser/Udhængsskab/22584%20Kode.pdf https://www.bilklage.dk/CMS/Upload/1/Documents/Anonymiserede... (in Danish)
  - Symbiote 3y ago
    Do I understand that correctly, that the Tesla can be set to follow 2-7 car lengths behind the preceding vehicle? At what sort of speeds is this available? The British driving exam and driving code says a distance of 6 car lengths is appropriate for ~50km/h (30mph), in dry weather. Anything faster, wetter or at night needs more distance.
    - mgrund 3y ago
      It’s not entirely clear what unit the number is in. Checked the manual and it’s a time-based distance to next car measure.
    - Lev1a 3y ago
      > The British driving exam and driving code says a distance of 6 car lengths is appropriate for ~50km/h (30mph), in dry weather. Anything faster, wetter or at night needs more distance. In Germany, the rule of thumb (based on reaction times) that's also taught in driving school for normal weather and road conditions during the day is "Halber Tacho" [1], i.e. at least half your speed (in km/h) as safety distance (in meters). Example: driving at 100km/h the minimum safety distance to have is 50m, the distance at which the "Leitpfosten" [2] ("delineator"?) are usually fixed along the roadside. [1]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicherheitsabstand#Ermittlung_des_Sicherheitsabstandes https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicherheitsabstand#Ermittlung_... , translated: https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Sicherheitsabstand?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en-US&_x_tr_hl=en-US#Ermittlung_des_Sicherheitsabstandes https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Sicherheitsab... [2]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leitpfosten https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leitpfosten , translated: https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Leitpfosten?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en-US&_x_tr_hl=en-US https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Leitpfosten?_...
rvnx 3y ago
If the radar is not used anyway, then when you are disconnecting it, you are going to save a little bit of power. Isn't it an improvement for power consumption ?
- TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
  When I am not using my bike, is it fair to steal it from my shed?
  - bzzzt 3y ago
    You didn't pay for the rader, you paid for the detection of objects. If the manufacturer finds a way to accomplish this by other means you don't lose anything.
    - sidibe 3y ago
      "You didn't pay for the Tesla you paid for a way to get from point A to point B, enjoy your new go-kart."
    - asdgkasdngionio 3y ago
      Don't tell me what's best for me. It doesn't matter how unreasonable you think I'm being; I have a right to decide how I will live. (P.S. The radar-based Teslas actually kind of work while the vision-based ones are a disaster, so you're wrong on the facts as well as on the principle.)

46 points by clouddrover 3y ago

m463 3y ago

I wonder what autopilot versions this applies to. AP1 only has one camera, and then has sonar and radar.

The article mentions as a drawback of non-radar-based cruise control: "They also can't follow other vehicles quite as closely, with the following distance kicked back from one car length to two, meaning that it is easier for other vehicles to sneak ahead of them in traffic." I'm not sure exactly how to interpret this, but at highway speeds, like from 55-85 mph, Honda's adaptive cruise control allows the following distance to be set from roughly 100 to 300 feet. An "average" car length seems to be about 15 feet, so that converts to 7-20 car lengths. If Teslas really do allow following other cars at 1-2 car lengths at, say, 75 mph, that's a bit startling. I can't say I've seen one doing it though.

kadoban 3y ago
I assume they mean at low speeds, in stop and go traffic.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mgrund 3y ago
That’s not what the number means. From the manual: “Each setting corresponds to a time-based distance that represents how long it takes for Model 3, from its current location, to reach the location of the rear bumper of the vehicle ahead of you” I think it might have been in the past, at least I was told the same thing years ago. That said, it is actually an issue that it now keeps too much distance under some conditions on the lowest setting.
- vba616 3y ago
  Two car lengths doesn't mean two car lengths? What is the conversion formula then?
IncandescentGas 3y ago
> meaning that it is easier for other vehicles to sneak ahead of them in traffic Changing lanes is "sneaking" now? Does somebody really think we need autonomous driving trained to block other cars from safely switching lanes?

ekux44 3y ago

Forced software/hardware downgrade to receive vehicle repair is such tyranny. Do owners that bought a car with a radar-based safety system have any recourse if they don't consent to the software & hardware disable of the radar system?

mgrund 3y ago
I actually filed a legal complaint about this. Ultimately the claim was rejected so no law in Denmark to protect against this [1]. Tesla was sentenced to pay me a small compensation ($800) for not getting proper consent for the update, but refuse to do so. I’ll have to take them to court to get it. [1] https://www.bilklage.dk/CMS/Upload/1/Documents/Anonymiserede%20afgørelser/Udhængsskab/22584%20Kode.pdf https://www.bilklage.dk/CMS/Upload/1/Documents/Anonymiserede... (in Danish)
- Symbiote 3y ago
  Do I understand that correctly, that the Tesla can be set to follow 2-7 car lengths behind the preceding vehicle? At what sort of speeds is this available? The British driving exam and driving code says a distance of 6 car lengths is appropriate for ~50km/h (30mph), in dry weather. Anything faster, wetter or at night needs more distance.
  - mgrund 3y ago
    It’s not entirely clear what unit the number is in. Checked the manual and it’s a time-based distance to next car measure.
  - Lev1a 3y ago
    > The British driving exam and driving code says a distance of 6 car lengths is appropriate for ~50km/h (30mph), in dry weather. Anything faster, wetter or at night needs more distance. In Germany, the rule of thumb (based on reaction times) that's also taught in driving school for normal weather and road conditions during the day is "Halber Tacho" [1], i.e. at least half your speed (in km/h) as safety distance (in meters). Example: driving at 100km/h the minimum safety distance to have is 50m, the distance at which the "Leitpfosten" [2] ("delineator"?) are usually fixed along the roadside. [1]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicherheitsabstand#Ermittlung_des_Sicherheitsabstandes https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicherheitsabstand#Ermittlung_... , translated: https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Sicherheitsabstand?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en-US&_x_tr_hl=en-US#Ermittlung_des_Sicherheitsabstandes https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Sicherheitsab... [2]: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leitpfosten https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leitpfosten , translated: https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Leitpfosten?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en-US&_x_tr_hl=en-US https://de-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/Leitpfosten?_...

rvnx 3y ago

If the radar is not used anyway, then when you are disconnecting it, you are going to save a little bit of power. Isn't it an improvement for power consumption ?

TheLoafOfBread 3y ago
When I am not using my bike, is it fair to steal it from my shed?
- bzzzt 3y ago
  You didn't pay for the rader, you paid for the detection of objects. If the manufacturer finds a way to accomplish this by other means you don't lose anything.
  - sidibe 3y ago
    "You didn't pay for the Tesla you paid for a way to get from point A to point B, enjoy your new go-kart."
  - asdgkasdngionio 3y ago
    Don't tell me what's best for me. It doesn't matter how unreasonable you think I'm being; I have a right to decide how I will live. (P.S. The radar-based Teslas actually kind of work while the vision-based ones are a disaster, so you're wrong on the facts as well as on the principle.)