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That's true of basically any change isn't it? Even seat belts conceivably could result in some very small increase in the chance of death as a result of it bein

by tqi 3y ago

That's true of basically any change isn't it? Even seat belts conceivably could result in some very small increase in the chance of death as a result of it being harder to escape a vehicle. Obviously the benefits far outweigh the risk, but then we are just arguing over where to draw the line.

jojobas 3y ago
They way you crash in terms of whether your seatbelt helps or harms doesn't depend on your life choices. Features likely benefiting drunk and distracted drivers and likely hurting aware ones are different.
Dylan16807 3y ago
I think you missed their point. It's not that most situations are improved and some get worse, it's that those situations might be unevenly distributed among drivers. A seat belt is basically the same for everyone. It makes things safer when you look at all drivers, and it makes things safer for just about any subgroup of drivers. But a buggy AEB might not fit that pattern. Imagine a system that reduces crashes by half, but then adds an extra X crashes per million miles. If someone's unassisted crash rate is 5X, then this system reduces it to 3.5X and is a great help. If someone's unassisted crash rate is .5X, then this system increases their crash rate to 1.25X and is a terrible trade.
- CJefferson 3y ago
  Your claim seems to be the group who are not helped are "good drivers"? ... except that doesn't feel like a well-defined group to me, and also is a group that almost everyone would say that they are in.
  - HPsquared 3y ago
    Insurance companies have a pretty good idea of who the "good" and "bad" drivers are. It's a question of statistics.
- tqi 3y ago
  > it's that those situations might be unevenly distributed among drivers. I think that may be true in all cases - for example seat belts and airbags requirements may affect people differently depending on height and weight?
  - Dylan16807 3y ago
    Well specifically the idea is that it's so uneven it might increase the danger for certain groups, and seatbelts are pretty good overall. But bringing up airbags is a great example. If you're short enough (or possibly if you're tall enough), a standard airbag is more dangerous than nothing at all.

by tqi 3y ago

jojobas 3y ago

They way you crash in terms of whether your seatbelt helps or harms doesn't depend on your life choices. Features likely benefiting drunk and distracted drivers and likely hurting aware ones are different.

Dylan16807 3y ago

I think you missed their point. It's not that most situations are improved and some get worse, it's that those situations might be unevenly distributed among drivers. A seat belt is basically the same for everyone. It makes things safer when you look at all drivers, and it makes things safer for just about any subgroup of drivers. But a buggy AEB might not fit that pattern. Imagine a system that reduces crashes by half, but then adds an extra X crashes per million miles. If someone's unassisted crash rate is 5X, then this system reduces it to 3.5X and is a great help. If someone's unassisted crash rate is .5X, then this system increases their crash rate to 1.25X and is a terrible trade.

CJefferson 3y ago
Your claim seems to be the group who are not helped are "good drivers"? ... except that doesn't feel like a well-defined group to me, and also is a group that almost everyone would say that they are in.
- HPsquared 3y ago
  Insurance companies have a pretty good idea of who the "good" and "bad" drivers are. It's a question of statistics.
tqi 3y ago
> it's that those situations might be unevenly distributed among drivers. I think that may be true in all cases - for example seat belts and airbags requirements may affect people differently depending on height and weight?
- Dylan16807 3y ago
  Well specifically the idea is that it's so uneven it might increase the danger for certain groups, and seatbelts are pretty good overall. But bringing up airbags is a great example. If you're short enough (or possibly if you're tall enough), a standard airbag is more dangerous than nothing at all.