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The last days of Berlin’s gas streetlamps
- Someone 3y agoLondon also has gas lamps, but they seem less under threat. https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p0fm4f8m/the-last-remaining-lamplighters-of-london https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p0fm4f8m/the-last-remaining-l... has a nice video explaining the tech, explaining that, nowadays, they’re switched on and off mechanically, with a mechanical clock in each lamp post.
- BoxOfRain 3y agoThere's some in the town of Malvern in the West Midlands too which I think are specifically perserved. I like having a bit of living history kept around!
- teruakohatu 3y agoIt seems like some of them are at risk of being replaced by LEDs. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-63092357 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-63092357
- nforgerit 3y agoThere's this story the ex-mayor of Berlin once told that there was a streetlamp directly in front of Rotes Rathaus (townhall) which was enlightened day and night and he couldn't figure out for a year or so who was responsible for that. Due to its history the responsibilities in Berlin about simple things like that are separated in such arcane ways that no one really knows who is in charge for what. Even reforming that seems almost impossible and makes Berlin what it is: A likable but highly dysfunctional city state (I think I may say that as a German and ex-Berliner).
- testfrequency 3y agoVery interesting. This is the first I’m hearing Berlin described as dysfunctional. I had a friend mention while I was visiting how bad the government support was “during Covid” for people who lost their jobs and wages, but didn’t want to pry. Do berliners feel forgotten by their leaders? Maybe that’s preferred and allows for more individualism (better or worse)?
- nforgerit 3y agoI'd say 20th century Berlin always was an island of craziness. In the roaring twenties, it became both a poorhouse (hyperinflation) and the city with the wildest parties and openly queer communities. After WW2 the story is that the Allies made sure that Berlin would be barely governable. In times of the iron curtain many many left-wing Germans who didn't want to serve in the military escaped to West-Berlin which was known as a safe harbor. And in the 90s from what I can see, it looked like a big techno party. So all in all, I think Berliners old and young are pretty fine with craziness and some kind of "governed anarchy". Only recently (to me at least and from what I heard for other people as well), it became really annoying because the government seems completely overwhelmed by pretty much everything. Berlin is btw still said to be the "capital of unemployment" and recently the housing problems and gentrification reached another absurd level.
- tormeh 3y ago> capital of unemployment" and recently the housing problems and gentrification These are sort of mutually exclusive. Berlin used to be poor, but as of 2019 it’s richer than the German average. This is admittedly unimpressive for a city-state, but still: Berlin is no country for poor men. It was, but no longer. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_states_by_GRP_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_states_by_GRP_p...
- leipert 3y ago“Average” GDP per capita doesn’t tell you how “rich” the individuals are. You should look at the median income per capita. Berlin ranks lower there than other federal states and cities. Look for example here where it ranks 318 out of 400. https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Landkreise/Kreise_und_Kreisfreien_Städte_nach_Einkommen https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_der_Landkreise/Kreise_...
- parl_match 3y agoDysfunctional isn't quite the word - well as far as the usual level of government goes. Chaotic is maybe a better term.
- TazeTSchnitzel 3y ago> Electric lights also have a grim impact on the local ecosystem. During a summer night, one light kills roughly 250 insects; by comparison, gas is harmless. Wait, what? Do gas lamps somehow not affect insects?
- Spivak 3y agoThey don't attract insects. Couldn't tell you why but I've actually exploited this for throwing outdoor parties at night. Those floodlights will be swarming with bugs but doting the place with kerosene lanterns they couldn't be less interested.
- userbinator 3y agoThe CO2 concentrations around them probably causes insects to stay away.
- Someone 3y ago> The CO2 concentrations around them probably causes insects to stay away. Which insects would that be? I thought, if anything, CO2 attracts at least some insects (but, reading https://askentomologists.com/2020/08/25/email-question-are-fireflies-attracted-to-co2/ https://askentomologists.com/2020/08/25/email-question-are-f... only in combination with other stimuli)
- londons_explore 3y agoGas lamps are way dimmer. Also, bugs have probably evolved not to go near the glowing embers of fires.
- closewith 3y agoAnyone who's ever lit a fire in a forest or wildland can attest this isn't true. Thousands of insects will fly directly into a fire at night.
- niemandhier 3y ago
- evanelias 3y agoIn the US, a few towns in New Jersey still exclusively use gas streetlamps. South Orange has over 1400 of them, which is somewhat ironic since Thomas Edison was based in neighboring West Orange. Glen Ridge has either 666 or 667, depending on the source, which makes me wonder if they installed an extra one during the 80s Satanic panic.
- leviathant 3y agoI've spotted a few in Philadelphia, but they're the exception, not the rule. The only specific place that pops in my head are the lamps in front of the Fireman's Hall Museum in Old City.
- IceHegel 3y agoLED lights mess with my brain. The flashing is problematic.
- zamadatix 3y agoFlicker isn't intrinsic to LEDs, just cheap ones people flock to.
- dabluecaboose 3y agoFlicker is intrinsic to LEDs. It's how their brightness is modulated.
- zamadatix 3y agoNot all LEDs are even dimmable, either. For something like streetlamps, which are typically either full off/on, paying extra for brighter dimmables to then run them at a less bright setting doesn't sound an appealing option anyways. But while we're on the topic of dimmables anyways, quality dimmables should have a switching frequency >1 KHz which is a different kind of flickering than e.g. low quality drivers which flicker at a perceivable rate (50hz/60 hz or double depending on the design).
- seiferteric 3y agoSeems like if there is more than 1 LED, you could just drive them at different phases like at a minimum you could have half could be driven 90 degrees out of phase to practically eliminate flicker.
- zamadatix 3y agoJust smoothing the rectification is cheaper and prevents the light from looki bc weird. It also makes your light brighter vs letting elements dip in cycles.
- mindslight 3y ago
- tormeh 3y agoI’m gradually developing a loathing for conservationists. Reading about these people blocking progress on the fossil-fuel phase-out is very grating. I’m sure they’re also opposed to nuclear power and other good things like happy children.
- gsk22 3y agoI can't tell if this is sarcastic so maybe I'm taking the bait here. Regardless, there is probably a middle ground for the lamps between "widespread use" and "extinction". It's not great that they are inefficient, but they are certainly historical, and the emissions from a few thousand gas lamps are a drop in the bucket for Berlin and the world. I would argue that the cultural, historical and educational value of the lamps should be given weight against the downsides and preserved to some extent.
- Zetobal 3y agoWe have museums for obsolete technology.
- gsk22 3y agoYes, and sometimes we instead leave obsolete technology in place as a living museum. Again, surely a compromise could be found -- replace, say, 98% of the gas lamps, but leave 2% functioning in a special historic district. With smart leadership and marketing, such historic areas can drive considerable tourist and economic activity as well.
- jcpst 3y agoIt’s not obsolete. It’s just deprecated.
- ahartmetz 3y agoI live in Berlin and I like the old gas lamps. Fortunately, the LED retrofits are very good at imitating the gas lights - I initially didn't expect city officials to care and then do such a good job. I sometimes hold my ear to a lamp post to listen for the typical hissing noise. It's become rare that I hear it, and if I do, it's a surprise.
- rob74 3y agoI'm a bit confused by the article: they say that West Berlin kept the gas lamps, but Unter den Linden, which they give as one of the main examples, was in East Berlin? Especially since the "out with the old, in with the new" attitude was more widespread in the West actually (for instance, West Berlin completely dismantled their tram network, while it was kept in East Berlin). Plus, East Germany had easy access to gas from the USSR...
- flohofwoe 3y agoFound this old article from 2012, towards the end: "Mr Kujath campaigned successfully against Berlin city government plans to axe gas street lamps back in the 1980s." This must have been in West Berlin, because "successfully campaigning" wasn't really possible in 1980's East Berlin (and at least the other campaigner mentioned in the article - Ilja Richter - was a West German TV celebrity). Maybe it's some weird "West-Berlin nostalgia" going on there. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/berlin-s-gas-lamps-to-be-snuffed-out-8191057.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/berlin-s-gas... That this whole thing has a 40 year history without being resolved is also sooo "typical Berlin" ;)