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22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture f

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms." 23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art." From 45 Communist Goals, published 1958 in "The Naked Communist" and read into the Congressional Record in 1963. Worth checking out, much of it came to pass. https://www.lib.usm.edu/legacy/spcol/exhibitions/anti-comm/activism_pay-2.html https://www.lib.usm.edu/legacy/spcol/exhibitions/anti-comm/a...

alephnerd 3y ago
It was published by the "Patriotic American Youth" - the youth wing of the precursor of the John Birch Society and affiliated with the (white) Citizens Council Movement, which was formed following Brown v Board of Education. https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/white-citizens-councils-wcc https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/white-citize... https://www.lib.usm.edu/legacy/spcol/exhibitions/anti-comm/activism_pay.html https://www.lib.usm.edu/legacy/spcol/exhibitions/anti-comm/a... https://mississippiencyclopedia.org/entries/patriotic-american-youth/ https://mississippiencyclopedia.org/entries/patriotic-americ... https://usmspecialcollections.omeka.net/exhibits/show/anticommunism/activism/pay https://usmspecialcollections.omeka.net/exhibits/show/antico...
- intalentive 3y ago
  Yeah, it's fascinating how frequently the paranoid wingnuts of the past turned out to be right. Then you have people like Aldous Huxley and things like the Jaffe memo, painting basically the same picture but from an "inside" perspective.
  - alephnerd 3y ago
    These wingnuts you mentioned weren't democrats or republicans - they supported George Wallace and his "American Independent Party". I for one like having the ability to vote without paying a poll tax or taking a poll exam and drinking from any damn water fountain I wish, which are rights Segregationist White Supremacist orgs like PAY, the John Birch Society, and the Citizen Councils wanted only for White Protestant Anglo-Saxon Americans. The fact you were able to pull up a primary document published by a movement from an era that is largely not taught in depth about is honestly very suspect, unless you are studying for a BA in American History, which I honestly doubt.
    - intalentive 3y ago
      That they were horrible people is irrelevant to the question: were they right about the "Communist goals"? That so many of the items in this list came to pass, either completely or in part, is prima facie evidence for 1) the existence of long term social planning in the West, or 2) the ability of the Birchers to correctly extrapolate from current trends to future events.
      - krapp 3y ago
        I mean, this isn't a list of "communist goals," this is a list of what is claimed, by American right-wingers and the American government during a time of vehement anti-communist sentiment - to be "communist goals," but it reads like a right-wing American screed. The first two items imply opposition to atomic war is a communist plot. It quotes without sources. It makes claims that it doesn't back up. I see no particular reason to take this at face value.
      - aebtebeten 3y ago
        The Birchers (and fellow travellers) were, according to Dr. Strangelove, also convinced that water fluoridation is a commie plot, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯?
    - carlosjobim 3y ago
      Your comment seriously gives an impression of having been written by the CIA. >They weren't democrats or republicans You know, if you think the whole world is either republican or democrat and anything not coming from those affiliations is suspect, then you have limited your world view pretty drastically. > The fact you were able to pull up a primary document published by a movement from an era that is largely not taught in depth about is honestly very suspect, unless you are studying for a BA in American History, which I honestly doubt. This as well. You're on a "hacker" forum, it is nothing unusual that people here are interested in fringe topics and find interesting sources outside the mainstream. Trying to pry into the identity of another poster to determine if he or she has the right to say certain things is beyond creepy. Have you considered a career at the CIA or other equivalent? From your comment you seem like a good fit.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  It's a summary of an FBI agent's report "Naked Communism". I'm thankful they were motivated to amplify the FBI's findings because the goals are heinous. And if we all agree the goals are heinous then I don't see anything left to contend with. If we can't agree they are heinous then I guess the communist agenda is alive and well.
hospitalJail 3y ago
As much as our government interferes with other countries, makes you wonder how often our country is interfered.
- the_third_wave 3y ago
  Yuri Bezmenov was a Soviet informant and KGB operative who defected to the United States in the early 70s who has some choice words to say on this subject, words which turned out to be more than prophetic. It is worth watching the whole interview, about 1 hour 20 minutes in which he laid out the four stages of ideological subversion” created by radical Marxists to indoctrinate and weaken nations from within. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yErKTVdETpw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yErKTVdETpw
  - the_third_wave 3y ago
    For those who voted down this factual answer to the question posed by hospitalJail a link to the Wikipedia page on Bezmenov may be helpful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov The talk page is interesting as well as it shows that the same sentiment which most likely led some individuals to vote down this mentioning of Bezmenov here also leads some to try to get the article on Bezmenov deleted as "Not notable" [1], attempts to link him via his "popularity among the alt-right" to hoaxes like the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and insinuating mentioning Bezmenov "recklessly promotes far-right conspiracy theory" [2], calling Bezmenov and his story a "CIA fabrication" [3] and again lamenting the fact that Bezemov's [sic.] ideas of ideological subversion are often used by the Alt-Right and Anti-Communists [4], thereby attempting to not only smear Bezmenov but also to link anti-communism with "alt-right". Yes, Bezmenov is a source often used by those who want to show examples of attempted subversion by the Soviet Union, this is why that interview I linked to is a good fit in the context of a question on foreign interference. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yuri_Bezmenov#Not_notable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yuri_Bezmenov#Not_notable? [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yuri_Bezmenov#Popularity_among_the_alt-right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yuri_Bezmenov#Popularity_... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yuri_Bezmenov#Possibility_of_the_entire_backstory_and_teachings_being_a_CIA_fabrication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yuri_Bezmenov#Possibility... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yuri_Bezmenov#Conspiracy_theories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yuri_Bezmenov#Conspiracy_...
hansjorg 3y ago
That the provenance proudly includes "read into the Congressional Record" (Wikipedia also mentions this) is almost all you need to know about this. The rest can be gleaned from the Wikipedia page on the author: > W. Cleon Skousen ... was an American conservative author with the John Birch Society and a faith-based conspiracy theorist
- FrustratedMonky 3y ago
  Was this then a Conspiracy to discredit another Conspiracy?
- intalentive 3y ago
  The predictive power of the Birchers suggests they were onto something.
nonethewiser 3y ago
32. "Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc."
ddalex 3y ago
Wow. Check out no: 2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engage in atomic war. I guess they had no clue how the American Psyche works. Japan sinks 6 vessels, U.S. drops the sun on Japan. Not once, but twice, for good measure. You'd think Russia would watch and learn. They haven't learned anything, even today.
- DANmode 3y ago
  Who's teaching them?

alephnerd 3y ago

It was published by the "Patriotic American Youth" - the youth wing of the precursor of the John Birch Society and affiliated with the (white) Citizens Council Movement, which was formed following Brown v Board of Education. https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/white-citizens-councils-wcc https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/encyclopedia/white-citize... https://www.lib.usm.edu/legacy/spcol/exhibitions/anti-comm/activism_pay.html https://www.lib.usm.edu/legacy/spcol/exhibitions/anti-comm/a... https://mississippiencyclopedia.org/entries/patriotic-american-youth/ https://mississippiencyclopedia.org/entries/patriotic-americ... https://usmspecialcollections.omeka.net/exhibits/show/anticommunism/activism/pay https://usmspecialcollections.omeka.net/exhibits/show/antico...

intalentive 3y ago
Yeah, it's fascinating how frequently the paranoid wingnuts of the past turned out to be right. Then you have people like Aldous Huxley and things like the Jaffe memo, painting basically the same picture but from an "inside" perspective.
- alephnerd 3y ago
  These wingnuts you mentioned weren't democrats or republicans - they supported George Wallace and his "American Independent Party". I for one like having the ability to vote without paying a poll tax or taking a poll exam and drinking from any damn water fountain I wish, which are rights Segregationist White Supremacist orgs like PAY, the John Birch Society, and the Citizen Councils wanted only for White Protestant Anglo-Saxon Americans. The fact you were able to pull up a primary document published by a movement from an era that is largely not taught in depth about is honestly very suspect, unless you are studying for a BA in American History, which I honestly doubt.
  - intalentive 3y ago
    That they were horrible people is irrelevant to the question: were they right about the "Communist goals"? That so many of the items in this list came to pass, either completely or in part, is prima facie evidence for 1) the existence of long term social planning in the West, or 2) the ability of the Birchers to correctly extrapolate from current trends to future events.
    - krapp 3y ago
      I mean, this isn't a list of "communist goals," this is a list of what is claimed, by American right-wingers and the American government during a time of vehement anti-communist sentiment - to be "communist goals," but it reads like a right-wing American screed. The first two items imply opposition to atomic war is a communist plot. It quotes without sources. It makes claims that it doesn't back up. I see no particular reason to take this at face value.
    - aebtebeten 3y ago
      The Birchers (and fellow travellers) were, according to Dr. Strangelove, also convinced that water fluoridation is a commie plot, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯?
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    Your comment seriously gives an impression of having been written by the CIA. >They weren't democrats or republicans You know, if you think the whole world is either republican or democrat and anything not coming from those affiliations is suspect, then you have limited your world view pretty drastically. > The fact you were able to pull up a primary document published by a movement from an era that is largely not taught in depth about is honestly very suspect, unless you are studying for a BA in American History, which I honestly doubt. This as well. You're on a "hacker" forum, it is nothing unusual that people here are interested in fringe topics and find interesting sources outside the mainstream. Trying to pry into the identity of another poster to determine if he or she has the right to say certain things is beyond creepy. Have you considered a career at the CIA or other equivalent? From your comment you seem like a good fit.
nonethewiser 3y ago
It's a summary of an FBI agent's report "Naked Communism". I'm thankful they were motivated to amplify the FBI's findings because the goals are heinous. And if we all agree the goals are heinous then I don't see anything left to contend with. If we can't agree they are heinous then I guess the communist agenda is alive and well.

hospitalJail 3y ago

As much as our government interferes with other countries, makes you wonder how often our country is interfered.

the_third_wave 3y ago
Yuri Bezmenov was a Soviet informant and KGB operative who defected to the United States in the early 70s who has some choice words to say on this subject, words which turned out to be more than prophetic. It is worth watching the whole interview, about 1 hour 20 minutes in which he laid out the four stages of ideological subversion” created by radical Marxists to indoctrinate and weaken nations from within. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yErKTVdETpw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yErKTVdETpw
- the_third_wave 3y ago
  For those who voted down this factual answer to the question posed by hospitalJail a link to the Wikipedia page on Bezmenov may be helpful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Bezmenov The talk page is interesting as well as it shows that the same sentiment which most likely led some individuals to vote down this mentioning of Bezmenov here also leads some to try to get the article on Bezmenov deleted as "Not notable" [1], attempts to link him via his "popularity among the alt-right" to hoaxes like the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and insinuating mentioning Bezmenov "recklessly promotes far-right conspiracy theory" [2], calling Bezmenov and his story a "CIA fabrication" [3] and again lamenting the fact that Bezemov's [sic.] ideas of ideological subversion are often used by the Alt-Right and Anti-Communists [4], thereby attempting to not only smear Bezmenov but also to link anti-communism with "alt-right". Yes, Bezmenov is a source often used by those who want to show examples of attempted subversion by the Soviet Union, this is why that interview I linked to is a good fit in the context of a question on foreign interference. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yuri_Bezmenov#Not_notable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yuri_Bezmenov#Not_notable? [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yuri_Bezmenov#Popularity_among_the_alt-right https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yuri_Bezmenov#Popularity_... [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yuri_Bezmenov#Possibility_of_the_entire_backstory_and_teachings_being_a_CIA_fabrication https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yuri_Bezmenov#Possibility... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yuri_Bezmenov#Conspiracy_theories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Yuri_Bezmenov#Conspiracy_...

hansjorg 3y ago

That the provenance proudly includes "read into the Congressional Record" (Wikipedia also mentions this) is almost all you need to know about this. The rest can be gleaned from the Wikipedia page on the author: > W. Cleon Skousen ... was an American conservative author with the John Birch Society and a faith-based conspiracy theorist

FrustratedMonky 3y ago
Was this then a Conspiracy to discredit another Conspiracy?
intalentive 3y ago
The predictive power of the Birchers suggests they were onto something.

nonethewiser 3y ago

32. "Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc."

ddalex 3y ago

Wow. Check out no: 2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engage in atomic war. I guess they had no clue how the American Psyche works. Japan sinks 6 vessels, U.S. drops the sun on Japan. Not once, but twice, for good measure. You'd think Russia would watch and learn. They haven't learned anything, even today.

DANmode 3y ago
Who's teaching them?