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It's strange to me how a key selling point of these vertical tabs is "save on vertical space", but they almost always still include a header bar. You can see in

It's strange to me how a key selling point of these vertical tabs is "save on vertical space", but they almost always still include a header bar. You can see in the video they posted that it saves almost no vertical space, while now taking up a massive amount of horizontal space.

kevincox 3y ago
That's a cool idea. Move the rest of the browser chrome into the left bar as well. Less of vertical tabs as an entire vertical chrome.
abdullahkhalids 3y ago
They certainly do save space on Firefox (with the right config). In the default setting, there is OS title bar, then a address+icon bar, then the tab bar. After installing sidebar tabs, you can remove the tab bar with some css, which saves about 5% of the vertical screen space.
- kitsunesoba 3y ago
  You can also remove that unnecessarily large sidebar header that Firefox insists on not letting users disable via normal means with userchrome mods. Some such setups can be seen at https://firefoxcss-store.github.io/ https://firefoxcss-store.github.io/.
- zamadatix 3y ago
  "tab bar in titlebar" has been the Firefox default for a number of years at this point. If Linux, your distro/packager of choice may have overridden that. The only true exception to this is tile based WMs (which don't have title bars) but in that case it's still above by default.
  - abdullahkhalids 3y ago
    You are correct. I have been using sidebar tabs for probably a decade now, so I had completely forgotten about the redesign.
amelius 3y ago
Perhaps we should just make monitors in 4:3 like we used to instead of 16:9 which is ridiculous since we typically don't watch movies in the office.
- tivert 3y ago
  > Perhaps we should just make monitors in 4:3 like we used to instead of 16:9 which is ridiculous since we don't typically watch movies in the office. That's on the right track, but going too far. 16:10 or 3:2 is much more reasonable. The idea of using 16:9 screens for work needs to die in a fire.
  - Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
    IMO the closer the ratio gets to 1 the better but the only fact I have for this is 1280x1024 (5:4) being better than 1024x768 (4:3)
    - pezezin 3y ago
      Meanwhile here I am, using an ultrawide 21:9 monitor and loving it as I can easily split it in two or three columns whenever I need. I don't understand why people like squarish monitors so much, the human FOV is not square.
      - jorvi 3y ago
        Widescreen and especially ultrawide makes sense with bigger screens but is terrible on laptop-sizes screens, at least outside of media consumption.
      - Sakos 3y ago
        How is the human FOV relevant? I just want to be able to fit as much vertical content into the visible area as possible. Because almost all documents we use are vertically organized.
- square_usual 3y ago
tivert 3y ago
> It's strange to me how a key selling point of these vertical tabs is "save on vertical space", but they almost always still include a header bar. Honestly, that's not the main selling point of vertical tabs for me. Horizontal tabs don't scale for more than a dozen or so, but vertical tabs do. The "wasted" horizontal space is useless for reading most page, but displays enough data for practical navigation, and the vertical organization allows more-developed vertical scrolling technologies to be used with the tab list (e.g. scroll wheels).
- alpaca128 3y ago
  > the vertical organization allows more-developed vertical scrolling technologies to be used with the tab list (e.g. scroll wheels). Firefox also lets you scroll the tabs horizontally. Which I prefer to Brave's approach of simply not displaying the last tabs in the bar if it's too many, which means newly opened tabs simply never show up while the others are shrunk so far they become difficult to hit with the cursor.
  - eviks 3y ago
    But it's easier to scroll vertically, also because the scroll area is bigger
nicklevin 3y ago
Arc moves the header bar stuff (URL) to the left pane, so the entire right pane is site content.
- imbnwa 3y ago
  Arc is way ahead on browser UX. Opening links in Pinned Tabs into a modal over the Pinned Tab content is exactly how I want to use link aggregator sites
- st380752143 3y ago
  I hope Arc's vertical tab could support nesting/tree feature, which is really useful.
pfist 3y ago
You can hide the title bar while vertical tabs are enabled. I am using it on a laptop and it feels great.
6510 3y ago
I struggle finding good page <titles> with the amount of space browsers give you. You should at least be able to see which tab is what if you have 3 for a website.
chaxor 3y ago
The trick is to hide all extra stuff like address bar, tabs, settings, OS related bars, etc. and alonly show the browser stuff upon Ctrl+L. It's so much nicer, especially with an wm that's just gets out of the way - awesomewm
eviks 3y ago
Yes, they don't follow their own principles to the logical conclusion In Vivaldi it's much better - you can get rid of the header bar completely and only have the search/tool bar, styled to be narrower, saves real space And since horizontal space is cheap in most websites, the latter part is less of an issue (though you still don't need it to be massive)
princevegeta89 3y ago
Saving 40px of vertical space in lieu of losing 120px of horizontal space?
- dietr1ch 3y ago
  When was the last time that those 120px of horizontal space made a difference? I can use 2 windows side by side and the pane just eats horizontal padding on most sites because narrow columns are prettier and easier to read.

kevincox 3y ago

That's a cool idea. Move the rest of the browser chrome into the left bar as well. Less of vertical tabs as an entire vertical chrome.

abdullahkhalids 3y ago

They certainly do save space on Firefox (with the right config). In the default setting, there is OS title bar, then a address+icon bar, then the tab bar. After installing sidebar tabs, you can remove the tab bar with some css, which saves about 5% of the vertical screen space.

kitsunesoba 3y ago
You can also remove that unnecessarily large sidebar header that Firefox insists on not letting users disable via normal means with userchrome mods. Some such setups can be seen at https://firefoxcss-store.github.io/ https://firefoxcss-store.github.io/.
zamadatix 3y ago
"tab bar in titlebar" has been the Firefox default for a number of years at this point. If Linux, your distro/packager of choice may have overridden that. The only true exception to this is tile based WMs (which don't have title bars) but in that case it's still above by default.
- abdullahkhalids 3y ago
  You are correct. I have been using sidebar tabs for probably a decade now, so I had completely forgotten about the redesign.

amelius 3y ago

Perhaps we should just make monitors in 4:3 like we used to instead of 16:9 which is ridiculous since we typically don't watch movies in the office.

tivert 3y ago
> Perhaps we should just make monitors in 4:3 like we used to instead of 16:9 which is ridiculous since we don't typically watch movies in the office. That's on the right track, but going too far. 16:10 or 3:2 is much more reasonable. The idea of using 16:9 screens for work needs to die in a fire.
- Am4TIfIsER0ppos 3y ago
  IMO the closer the ratio gets to 1 the better but the only fact I have for this is 1280x1024 (5:4) being better than 1024x768 (4:3)
  - pezezin 3y ago
    Meanwhile here I am, using an ultrawide 21:9 monitor and loving it as I can easily split it in two or three columns whenever I need. I don't understand why people like squarish monitors so much, the human FOV is not square.
    - jorvi 3y ago
      Widescreen and especially ultrawide makes sense with bigger screens but is terrible on laptop-sizes screens, at least outside of media consumption.
    - Sakos 3y ago
      How is the human FOV relevant? I just want to be able to fit as much vertical content into the visible area as possible. Because almost all documents we use are vertically organized.
square_usual 3y ago

tivert 3y ago

> It's strange to me how a key selling point of these vertical tabs is "save on vertical space", but they almost always still include a header bar. Honestly, that's not the main selling point of vertical tabs for me. Horizontal tabs don't scale for more than a dozen or so, but vertical tabs do. The "wasted" horizontal space is useless for reading most page, but displays enough data for practical navigation, and the vertical organization allows more-developed vertical scrolling technologies to be used with the tab list (e.g. scroll wheels).

alpaca128 3y ago
> the vertical organization allows more-developed vertical scrolling technologies to be used with the tab list (e.g. scroll wheels). Firefox also lets you scroll the tabs horizontally. Which I prefer to Brave's approach of simply not displaying the last tabs in the bar if it's too many, which means newly opened tabs simply never show up while the others are shrunk so far they become difficult to hit with the cursor.
- eviks 3y ago
  But it's easier to scroll vertically, also because the scroll area is bigger

nicklevin 3y ago

Arc moves the header bar stuff (URL) to the left pane, so the entire right pane is site content.

imbnwa 3y ago
Arc is way ahead on browser UX. Opening links in Pinned Tabs into a modal over the Pinned Tab content is exactly how I want to use link aggregator sites
st380752143 3y ago
I hope Arc's vertical tab could support nesting/tree feature, which is really useful.

pfist 3y ago

You can hide the title bar while vertical tabs are enabled. I am using it on a laptop and it feels great.

6510 3y ago

I struggle finding good page <titles> with the amount of space browsers give you. You should at least be able to see which tab is what if you have 3 for a website.

chaxor 3y ago

The trick is to hide all extra stuff like address bar, tabs, settings, OS related bars, etc. and alonly show the browser stuff upon Ctrl+L. It's so much nicer, especially with an wm that's just gets out of the way - awesomewm

eviks 3y ago

Yes, they don't follow their own principles to the logical conclusion In Vivaldi it's much better - you can get rid of the header bar completely and only have the search/tool bar, styled to be narrower, saves real space And since horizontal space is cheap in most websites, the latter part is less of an issue (though you still don't need it to be massive)

princevegeta89 3y ago

Saving 40px of vertical space in lieu of losing 120px of horizontal space?

dietr1ch 3y ago
When was the last time that those 120px of horizontal space made a difference? I can use 2 windows side by side and the pane just eats horizontal padding on most sites because narrow columns are prettier and easier to read.