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I feel like the HN hivemind likes to bash Reddit for some reason, but for me it has not been that bad. I've got small work gigs on there, discovered places wher

I feel like the HN hivemind likes to bash Reddit for some reason, but for me it has not been that bad. I've got small work gigs on there, discovered places where I've got to learn about stuff that I like, being updated about what's going on in the FOSS world, discover new music, etcetera. Yes, some people in there would like to drag you into absurd and nonsensical arguments, but even in here where I do not participate that much have fell into that situation. I went into Reddit after 6 years of using Facebook which was much, much worse. Reddit made me ditch Facebook once and for all. Not that I agree even in the slightiest about the changes they are about to make, but I'm yet to find an alternative where I could find all of the aforementioned but with a more sane support. I don't see how usenet can bring all of that all of a sudden, nor see myself using something like Mastodon and become a social media addict.

stronglikedan 3y ago
I use reddit almost daily for niche subjects, and I only use it in the browser. Granted, I use old.reddit, but still, I have no idea what people are on about when they say they need a 3rd party solution to use it. It's practically zero effort. To me, it takes more time to complain about it than to actually use it.
- skyyler 3y ago
  They're not complaining about old.reddit, that's for sure. The mobile site pushes you to use their official app, which is horrible in quality compared to the many third party apps. I'd stop using reddit entirely before I switched to their official app or new site design.
opportune 3y ago
Some problems with Reddit (like it having a lowest-common-denominator general user base due to its size) are avoidable by going on smaller subreddits. The real problem with Reddit is that even small subreddits tend towards beginner or introductory content because that reflects the level of understanding of most users. Having separable, more focused forums can allow for discussions at a much higher level of knowledge and expertise than Reddit. You can see plenty of examples of this today with HN having better content and discussion in its niche than anywhere on Reddit, and plenty of complicated high-skill-ceiling discussion topics like vehicle maintenance or travel hacks still being discussed at high quality on oldschool forums. I don’t see a benefit for Usenet because it wasn’t obsoleted by Reddit, it was made obsolete by forums. Honestly I just wish those would make a resurgence. They allow for so much more customization than Reddit, Usenet, or Facebook and don’t have centralized policies constantly messing with them. And I really don’t think there is a need for a one-stop-shop site or tech stack for focused discussion. Reddit and FB may have replaced forums in most cases for most people from 2010 to now, but as they’ve become more commercialized with more rules, maybe we can switch back
- yunohn 3y ago
  > reflects the level of understanding of most users It’s also this elitist mindset that makes HN boring often.
  - opportune 3y ago
    I’m not trying to be elitist, there’s certainly a need and place for content aimed towards beginners or people very casually engaging in a topic, and when I’ve been getting into a topic I’ve found Reddit quite valuable. It’s just that after a few years as you get more into the topic you start wanting a different kind of content and discussion, and don’t want to keep reading the same rehashed advice or beginner-oriented content any more. So there has to be (or should be) a place for content aimed at more experienced people.
    - Freedom2 3y ago
      > don’t want to keep reading the same rehashed advice Rehashed, sometimes outdated, advice is what you'll often find here, though.
  - arp242 3y ago
    I don't think wanting to have a space that's not flooded with beginner-type questions all the time is "elitist". That doesn't mean you're against such spaces. I wrote an entire thing about this a few years ago: https://www.arp242.net/elitist.html https://www.arp242.net/elitist.html
    - opportune 3y ago
      It’s hard because you don’t want to be overly exclusive of beginners either. In the real world various mechanisms like cost, hiring, applications for membership, referrals can work. But online, unless you’re running a very small community, there’s way too much process and overhead in that, and it comes across as sanctimonious given it’s not standard practice at all. Honestly I think one of the biggest reasons Reddit fails to work for experts is how voting affects visibility. When the majority of users are beginners, they’ll vote on things that appeal to and are understandable by beginners. Because voting affects the likelihood something gets seen, stuff oriented towards experts doesn’t get as much visibility, so discussion doesn’t happen, and it seems like that content isn’t there. In your example, at least there wasn’t a voting system making it so all the highest ranked questions at your meet up were from absolute beginners. Somehow HN avoids this but I think it’s because they do both manual curation of bumping/upranking/downranking content and have some heuristic for vote:comment radio deranking posts. Plus low effort posts get banned or hidden. Without the ranking:voting relationship, like in regular forums where ranking is just based on the last time a thread had a post, beginners would just ignore expert-oriented posts or be ignored if they contributed in a non constructive way. IMO that’s perfectly fine
ThrowawayTestr 3y ago
This is about alternative front ends becoming untenable. Have you used the new interface?
Bukhmanizer 3y ago
I find it slightly annoying how Reddit gets always singled out as being “better than other social media” when it’s often more toxic and addictive. Most of my FB feed is photos of my friends/ life updates. Most of my Instagram feed is dogs. You can curate almost any social media into what you want, Reddit isn’t extraordinary in that respect. But there’s a smugness to a lot of redditors I really despise that I think the voting system rewards. As if having the statistically most broadly agreeable opinions makes one superior. Even in small to medium sized communities.
- hitsurume 3y ago
  Reddit is very good at pitch forking opinions that aren't the majority. Thats why its considered the frontpage of the internet because its what "most" average people go for entertainment and engagement. Its not a place to cultivate meaningful discussions or debates. Really most of the people in this thread that doesn't like Reddit are people who don't follow the opinions of the general population.

stronglikedan 3y ago

I use reddit almost daily for niche subjects, and I only use it in the browser. Granted, I use old.reddit, but still, I have no idea what people are on about when they say they need a 3rd party solution to use it. It's practically zero effort. To me, it takes more time to complain about it than to actually use it.

skyyler 3y ago
They're not complaining about old.reddit, that's for sure. The mobile site pushes you to use their official app, which is horrible in quality compared to the many third party apps. I'd stop using reddit entirely before I switched to their official app or new site design.

opportune 3y ago

Some problems with Reddit (like it having a lowest-common-denominator general user base due to its size) are avoidable by going on smaller subreddits. The real problem with Reddit is that even small subreddits tend towards beginner or introductory content because that reflects the level of understanding of most users. Having separable, more focused forums can allow for discussions at a much higher level of knowledge and expertise than Reddit. You can see plenty of examples of this today with HN having better content and discussion in its niche than anywhere on Reddit, and plenty of complicated high-skill-ceiling discussion topics like vehicle maintenance or travel hacks still being discussed at high quality on oldschool forums. I don’t see a benefit for Usenet because it wasn’t obsoleted by Reddit, it was made obsolete by forums. Honestly I just wish those would make a resurgence. They allow for so much more customization than Reddit, Usenet, or Facebook and don’t have centralized policies constantly messing with them. And I really don’t think there is a need for a one-stop-shop site or tech stack for focused discussion. Reddit and FB may have replaced forums in most cases for most people from 2010 to now, but as they’ve become more commercialized with more rules, maybe we can switch back

yunohn 3y ago
> reflects the level of understanding of most users It’s also this elitist mindset that makes HN boring often.
- opportune 3y ago
  I’m not trying to be elitist, there’s certainly a need and place for content aimed towards beginners or people very casually engaging in a topic, and when I’ve been getting into a topic I’ve found Reddit quite valuable. It’s just that after a few years as you get more into the topic you start wanting a different kind of content and discussion, and don’t want to keep reading the same rehashed advice or beginner-oriented content any more. So there has to be (or should be) a place for content aimed at more experienced people.
  - Freedom2 3y ago
    > don’t want to keep reading the same rehashed advice Rehashed, sometimes outdated, advice is what you'll often find here, though.
- arp242 3y ago
  I don't think wanting to have a space that's not flooded with beginner-type questions all the time is "elitist". That doesn't mean you're against such spaces. I wrote an entire thing about this a few years ago: https://www.arp242.net/elitist.html https://www.arp242.net/elitist.html
  - opportune 3y ago
    It’s hard because you don’t want to be overly exclusive of beginners either. In the real world various mechanisms like cost, hiring, applications for membership, referrals can work. But online, unless you’re running a very small community, there’s way too much process and overhead in that, and it comes across as sanctimonious given it’s not standard practice at all. Honestly I think one of the biggest reasons Reddit fails to work for experts is how voting affects visibility. When the majority of users are beginners, they’ll vote on things that appeal to and are understandable by beginners. Because voting affects the likelihood something gets seen, stuff oriented towards experts doesn’t get as much visibility, so discussion doesn’t happen, and it seems like that content isn’t there. In your example, at least there wasn’t a voting system making it so all the highest ranked questions at your meet up were from absolute beginners. Somehow HN avoids this but I think it’s because they do both manual curation of bumping/upranking/downranking content and have some heuristic for vote:comment radio deranking posts. Plus low effort posts get banned or hidden. Without the ranking:voting relationship, like in regular forums where ranking is just based on the last time a thread had a post, beginners would just ignore expert-oriented posts or be ignored if they contributed in a non constructive way. IMO that’s perfectly fine

ThrowawayTestr 3y ago

This is about alternative front ends becoming untenable. Have you used the new interface?

Bukhmanizer 3y ago

I find it slightly annoying how Reddit gets always singled out as being “better than other social media” when it’s often more toxic and addictive. Most of my FB feed is photos of my friends/ life updates. Most of my Instagram feed is dogs. You can curate almost any social media into what you want, Reddit isn’t extraordinary in that respect. But there’s a smugness to a lot of redditors I really despise that I think the voting system rewards. As if having the statistically most broadly agreeable opinions makes one superior. Even in small to medium sized communities.

hitsurume 3y ago
Reddit is very good at pitch forking opinions that aren't the majority. Thats why its considered the frontpage of the internet because its what "most" average people go for entertainment and engagement. Its not a place to cultivate meaningful discussions or debates. Really most of the people in this thread that doesn't like Reddit are people who don't follow the opinions of the general population.