15 ms·

Games sell game controllers, not the other way around. When a sufficiently good experience is available for VR, which isn't usable without VR, then VR headsets

Games sell game controllers, not the other way around. When a sufficiently good experience is available for VR, which isn't usable without VR, then VR headsets will sell. I've tried all the VR apps and games, and they all underwhelm.

fbrchps 3y ago
I largely agree with you, however Superhot is the closest thing I've experienced to the "can't do it outside VR" games. I did previously play the browser version of the same game, and it was fantastic still, but there's something different about moving around in space like that. HL:Alyx got close to the "only in VR" sort of mechanics, but change 2-3 big set pieces, and it could very much be done on a 2D screen.
- l33tman 3y ago
  Well, it doesn't only have to be "only in VR" mechanics, it also has to be a really really fun game compared to almost all the other games you could at the moment purchase and play on your normal PC with a normal monitor and no extra $1000 investment in hardware.. I've tested VR sporadically ever since the first Oculus Rift came out, and I just get a headache after 15 minutes and that kind of has ruined it for me forever I guess as I now associate VR with motion sickness, bad ergonomics etc. That's very personal of course, I know there are others who can run around in VR fine for a whole day without these reactions. Anyway... the game has to be outrageously good for me at least to use a VR version instead of just sitting on my chair staring on the screen with a cup of tea next to me.
  - thinkmassive 3y ago
    Weird to say the barrier to entry is “an extra $1000” when the headline is exactly half that, which is similar to the cost of a console or decent GPU. Edit: and the Quest 2 will be reduced to $300 in a couple days from now
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      It was $300 before Facebook raised its price. Completely worth it. I will buy the Quest 3 as soon as it is released, but just for my stack of fitness games that are in my daily routine.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    You can get back into it. I get motion sick too with some stupid games (like X-Plane that has this really annoying opposite movement when it's loading, GRR). But just do it slowly and don't keep going the moment you get even a hint of sickness. Soon you'll be running aroudn with no issue.
  - chaostheory 3y ago
    > I just get a headache after 15 minutes That usually means your IPD isn’t setup properly on your headset. It’s more common on HTC headsets or any others that have really fresnel lenses
- spaceman_2020 3y ago
  I tried Alyx and it was just not fun. Not for the game or anything, but I was really just uncomfortable being in a virtual reality environment where I was hunting/being-hunted by aliens. That's really not my idea of a good time - more like a nightmare. VR needs some less intense and some more fun, low-stress gaming experiences to draw in the casuals like me.
  - chaostheory 3y ago
    > VR needs some less intense and some more fun, low-stress gaming experiences to draw in the casuals like me. You’re in luck because those types of titles form the majority of VR titles today. The more common complaint is the lack of AAA content like Alyx which is due to the lack of users
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    I think it's amazing. I played through about 5 times now. And a lot of the user-generated content too. But I feel like there's a lot more for people like you. Moss, Beat Saber, Red Matter etc.
  - namuol 3y ago
    IMO this is true for all “games”, not just VR. The industry is surprisingly conservative in terms of content/genre outside of indie studios. It’s basically Hollywood.
    - spaceman_2020 3y ago
      Bizarre that the industry keeps pumping out the same kind of games that alienate casuals like me as well as women. That’s a massive untapped market. The only game my wife ever played was The Sims and was completely baffled when she learned there were no other games similar to it. And yet they’ll spend $200M making yet another military FPS
      - fragmede 3y ago
        It's not like other games in the broader genre don't exist. eg Stardew Valley, Animal Crossing, My Time at Portia all come to mind.
RajT88 3y ago
You need to play Demeo. They have a Non-VR version now so people without headsets can get in on the fun, but it's just not the same.
- Kiro 3y ago
  What makes Demeo great? I'm considering getting it.
  - RajT88 3y ago
    If you have ever played D&D with miniatures, it's like that, only the miniatures are glowy and sparkling and animated, and the board is very detailed. You pick the pieces up with your VR controllers and move them around. Except you can zoom in to stick your face super close-up to the action to see it going down. When you zoom out, you are, indeed, in someone's basement. When it's not your turn you can enjoy all the geeky easter eggs sitting around the basement. It sounds cool like this, but I can assure you it's cooler than that. I first played it non-VR and enjoyed the game, and then played a game the second time in VR and literally said aloud, "Holy Shit!".
danpalmer 3y ago
I see your point but I think both need to happen. My guess is that the best VR games will only show their real appeal when played, because people don't have a great frame of reference otherwise. I can look at a PS5 game and decide to buy a PS5, because I know what controller based consoles are like, I know the types of games, I know what I like. I can't do any of that with a VR game because I don't know what sort of headset I like, how it feels, what's important in a VR game that isn't in others and vice-versa.
kitsunesoba 3y ago
For me Beat Saber is that game. With mods and community-made songs/beatmaps which can be quite intense and it's how I get in some cardio on a regular schedule (~1h30m on a two-days-on-one-day-off cycle). Currently I do this with a Quest 2 attached to a Vive Deluxe Audio headstrap with 3D printed adapters and a counterweight on the back to take pressure off my face (a setup dubbed "frankenquest"). It works well enough but there's a lot of room for improvement.
- kmkemp 3y ago
  I think the experience just isn't mainstream enough. I think there are a lot of people that would drop $200-$300 to get a beat sabre experience if they were aware of the option. Is there any reason it should be less compelling than the "Wii as exercise" craze, for example?
  - YurgenJurgensen 3y ago
    The Wii was heavily marketed as a family entertainment system. A 'Family Computer', if you will. It's even in the name. People were buying it because it's something your grandmother could play alongside your five year old son. VR is still marketed as ages 13 and up, gives some people nausea and can only be used by one person at a time. There's also extra hygiene concerns that make them awkward to use at parties as you have the extra step of wiping the headset down between users. The controllers are also pretty intimidating for new users because you can't see them. I was showing PSVR2 to my dad and told him "Push R2 to select" before realising that if you didn't know where the R2 button was already, you had no hope of finding it because you're physically incapable of seeing the controller. It's a long way from the ultra-casual Wii experience.
    - riversflow 3y ago
      > you have the extra step of wiping the headset down between users You wipe it down? Is that normal?
      - 3y ago
danielmarkbruce 3y ago
aka, there is no killer app in VR.
arecurrence 3y ago
Some games give me that experience: 1. Thrill of the Fight. Boxing standing up throwing fists and blocking with precision just doesn’t exist with controllers. 2. Blaston believe it or not. I really enjoyed hiding behind barriers dodging shots and leaping out to grab power ups. 3. The table tennis game. Swinging my arm like a real paddle was so realistic and the shots are just not reproducible with such precision. 4. Golf with the cut down iron shaft. Again, the fidelity of the shots just isn’t possible otherwise. You can get the same thing at some sports bars but it costs way more :)
- ChuckNorris89 3y ago
  Try "In Death: Unchained". You'll be blown away. By far the best game on the Quest IMHO. It's exactly the kind of game I wish for as a kid.
  - andybak 3y ago
    I second this. I never tire of this game.
- judah 3y ago
  Thrill of the Fight is such an amazing game. It's fun but it's also an intense workout, especially if you crank up the difficulty level. I've purchased fitness games for the Quest, and while I enjoy them, they don't give the same intensity of workout that Thrill of the Fight does. I hope they'll make a v2 of this excellent game.
  - jnsie 3y ago
    Thrill of the Fight is brutal. Never thought I would sweat so much in a VR headset. It's a great game and an intense workout.
  - golemiprague 3y ago
    [dead]
  - arecurrence 3y ago
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
yowlingcat 3y ago
There is a killer app for VR which isn't usable without VR, it's just NSFW.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  To be honest the way this is being eschewed is stupid. It's holding back the tech. Oculus bans it from its store, Sidequest had it for a while but caved in due to stupid pressure from payment providers and their deal with oculus. Yet it's a perfectly valid usecase and one where VR adds value. Despite current tech not making perfect use of what VR offers (no 6DOF for example). There are also motion-synced peripherals available to add an extra factor to it. It's a booming industry. Meta are shooting themselves in the foot by ignoring it. There's a big urban myth that VHS won over betamax because Betamax limited the types of movies available for its system. While I believe the story is BS, it was a component of betamax's failure and there is undeniably a huge market for it.
melvinmelih 3y ago
I’m still waiting for a good immersive VR game that I can just play while sitting on a couch… all those games that require me to move my entire body all the time get exhausting really fast.
- neomoto 3y ago
  Try Trover Saves The Universe from Rick & Morty's authors
- philjohn 3y ago
  More games have sit down modes now. Walking Dead Saints and Sinners, as well as I Expect you to Die (fun puzzler) are two examples off the top of my head.
JeremyNT 3y ago
I think vehicle sims are the best case for these things. They really do play better in vr. Yet even so, of course you can still use a monitor, and of course that's good enough. It's hard to imagine what a vr exclusive that couldn't be enjoyable on a monitor or TV might actually look like.
chaostheory 3y ago
What have you tried?
poisonarena 3y ago
Into the Radius is that game I think.. It is like Stalker Shadows of Chernobyl in VR .. I just think lots of people don't know about it. But its the game
nevster 3y ago
Beat Saber, Echo VR and Walkabout Minigolf are standouts

fbrchps 3y ago

I largely agree with you, however Superhot is the closest thing I've experienced to the "can't do it outside VR" games. I did previously play the browser version of the same game, and it was fantastic still, but there's something different about moving around in space like that. HL:Alyx got close to the "only in VR" sort of mechanics, but change 2-3 big set pieces, and it could very much be done on a 2D screen.

l33tman 3y ago
Well, it doesn't only have to be "only in VR" mechanics, it also has to be a really really fun game compared to almost all the other games you could at the moment purchase and play on your normal PC with a normal monitor and no extra $1000 investment in hardware.. I've tested VR sporadically ever since the first Oculus Rift came out, and I just get a headache after 15 minutes and that kind of has ruined it for me forever I guess as I now associate VR with motion sickness, bad ergonomics etc. That's very personal of course, I know there are others who can run around in VR fine for a whole day without these reactions. Anyway... the game has to be outrageously good for me at least to use a VR version instead of just sitting on my chair staring on the screen with a cup of tea next to me.
- thinkmassive 3y ago
  Weird to say the barrier to entry is “an extra $1000” when the headline is exactly half that, which is similar to the cost of a console or decent GPU. Edit: and the Quest 2 will be reduced to $300 in a couple days from now
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    It was $300 before Facebook raised its price. Completely worth it. I will buy the Quest 3 as soon as it is released, but just for my stack of fitness games that are in my daily routine.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  You can get back into it. I get motion sick too with some stupid games (like X-Plane that has this really annoying opposite movement when it's loading, GRR). But just do it slowly and don't keep going the moment you get even a hint of sickness. Soon you'll be running aroudn with no issue.
- chaostheory 3y ago
  > I just get a headache after 15 minutes That usually means your IPD isn’t setup properly on your headset. It’s more common on HTC headsets or any others that have really fresnel lenses
spaceman_2020 3y ago
I tried Alyx and it was just not fun. Not for the game or anything, but I was really just uncomfortable being in a virtual reality environment where I was hunting/being-hunted by aliens. That's really not my idea of a good time - more like a nightmare. VR needs some less intense and some more fun, low-stress gaming experiences to draw in the casuals like me.
- chaostheory 3y ago
  > VR needs some less intense and some more fun, low-stress gaming experiences to draw in the casuals like me. You’re in luck because those types of titles form the majority of VR titles today. The more common complaint is the lack of AAA content like Alyx which is due to the lack of users
- wkat4242 3y ago
  I think it's amazing. I played through about 5 times now. And a lot of the user-generated content too. But I feel like there's a lot more for people like you. Moss, Beat Saber, Red Matter etc.
- namuol 3y ago
  IMO this is true for all “games”, not just VR. The industry is surprisingly conservative in terms of content/genre outside of indie studios. It’s basically Hollywood.
  - spaceman_2020 3y ago
    Bizarre that the industry keeps pumping out the same kind of games that alienate casuals like me as well as women. That’s a massive untapped market. The only game my wife ever played was The Sims and was completely baffled when she learned there were no other games similar to it. And yet they’ll spend $200M making yet another military FPS
    - fragmede 3y ago
      It's not like other games in the broader genre don't exist. eg Stardew Valley, Animal Crossing, My Time at Portia all come to mind.

RajT88 3y ago

You need to play Demeo. They have a Non-VR version now so people without headsets can get in on the fun, but it's just not the same.

Kiro 3y ago
What makes Demeo great? I'm considering getting it.
- RajT88 3y ago
  If you have ever played D&D with miniatures, it's like that, only the miniatures are glowy and sparkling and animated, and the board is very detailed. You pick the pieces up with your VR controllers and move them around. Except you can zoom in to stick your face super close-up to the action to see it going down. When you zoom out, you are, indeed, in someone's basement. When it's not your turn you can enjoy all the geeky easter eggs sitting around the basement. It sounds cool like this, but I can assure you it's cooler than that. I first played it non-VR and enjoyed the game, and then played a game the second time in VR and literally said aloud, "Holy Shit!".

danpalmer 3y ago

I see your point but I think both need to happen. My guess is that the best VR games will only show their real appeal when played, because people don't have a great frame of reference otherwise. I can look at a PS5 game and decide to buy a PS5, because I know what controller based consoles are like, I know the types of games, I know what I like. I can't do any of that with a VR game because I don't know what sort of headset I like, how it feels, what's important in a VR game that isn't in others and vice-versa.

kitsunesoba 3y ago

For me Beat Saber is that game. With mods and community-made songs/beatmaps which can be quite intense and it's how I get in some cardio on a regular schedule (~1h30m on a two-days-on-one-day-off cycle). Currently I do this with a Quest 2 attached to a Vive Deluxe Audio headstrap with 3D printed adapters and a counterweight on the back to take pressure off my face (a setup dubbed "frankenquest"). It works well enough but there's a lot of room for improvement.

kmkemp 3y ago
I think the experience just isn't mainstream enough. I think there are a lot of people that would drop $200-$300 to get a beat sabre experience if they were aware of the option. Is there any reason it should be less compelling than the "Wii as exercise" craze, for example?
- YurgenJurgensen 3y ago
  The Wii was heavily marketed as a family entertainment system. A 'Family Computer', if you will. It's even in the name. People were buying it because it's something your grandmother could play alongside your five year old son. VR is still marketed as ages 13 and up, gives some people nausea and can only be used by one person at a time. There's also extra hygiene concerns that make them awkward to use at parties as you have the extra step of wiping the headset down between users. The controllers are also pretty intimidating for new users because you can't see them. I was showing PSVR2 to my dad and told him "Push R2 to select" before realising that if you didn't know where the R2 button was already, you had no hope of finding it because you're physically incapable of seeing the controller. It's a long way from the ultra-casual Wii experience.
  - riversflow 3y ago
    > you have the extra step of wiping the headset down between users You wipe it down? Is that normal?
    - 3y ago

danielmarkbruce 3y ago

aka, there is no killer app in VR.

arecurrence 3y ago

Some games give me that experience: 1. Thrill of the Fight. Boxing standing up throwing fists and blocking with precision just doesn’t exist with controllers. 2. Blaston believe it or not. I really enjoyed hiding behind barriers dodging shots and leaping out to grab power ups. 3. The table tennis game. Swinging my arm like a real paddle was so realistic and the shots are just not reproducible with such precision. 4. Golf with the cut down iron shaft. Again, the fidelity of the shots just isn’t possible otherwise. You can get the same thing at some sports bars but it costs way more :)

ChuckNorris89 3y ago
Try "In Death: Unchained". You'll be blown away. By far the best game on the Quest IMHO. It's exactly the kind of game I wish for as a kid.
- andybak 3y ago
  I second this. I never tire of this game.
judah 3y ago
Thrill of the Fight is such an amazing game. It's fun but it's also an intense workout, especially if you crank up the difficulty level. I've purchased fitness games for the Quest, and while I enjoy them, they don't give the same intensity of workout that Thrill of the Fight does. I hope they'll make a v2 of this excellent game.
- jnsie 3y ago
  Thrill of the Fight is brutal. Never thought I would sweat so much in a VR headset. It's a great game and an intense workout.
- golemiprague 3y ago
  [dead]
- arecurrence 3y ago

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

yowlingcat 3y ago

There is a killer app for VR which isn't usable without VR, it's just NSFW.

wkat4242 3y ago
To be honest the way this is being eschewed is stupid. It's holding back the tech. Oculus bans it from its store, Sidequest had it for a while but caved in due to stupid pressure from payment providers and their deal with oculus. Yet it's a perfectly valid usecase and one where VR adds value. Despite current tech not making perfect use of what VR offers (no 6DOF for example). There are also motion-synced peripherals available to add an extra factor to it. It's a booming industry. Meta are shooting themselves in the foot by ignoring it. There's a big urban myth that VHS won over betamax because Betamax limited the types of movies available for its system. While I believe the story is BS, it was a component of betamax's failure and there is undeniably a huge market for it.

melvinmelih 3y ago

I’m still waiting for a good immersive VR game that I can just play while sitting on a couch… all those games that require me to move my entire body all the time get exhausting really fast.

neomoto 3y ago
Try Trover Saves The Universe from Rick & Morty's authors
philjohn 3y ago
More games have sit down modes now. Walking Dead Saints and Sinners, as well as I Expect you to Die (fun puzzler) are two examples off the top of my head.

JeremyNT 3y ago

I think vehicle sims are the best case for these things. They really do play better in vr. Yet even so, of course you can still use a monitor, and of course that's good enough. It's hard to imagine what a vr exclusive that couldn't be enjoyable on a monitor or TV might actually look like.

chaostheory 3y ago

What have you tried?

poisonarena 3y ago

Into the Radius is that game I think.. It is like Stalker Shadows of Chernobyl in VR .. I just think lots of people don't know about it. But its the game

nevster 3y ago

Beat Saber, Echo VR and Walkabout Minigolf are standouts