4 ms·

> I'm going to take a wild guess that 90+% of things we describe as 'autoimmune' are in fact initially caused by some bacteria/virus/pollution we haven't yet id

> I'm going to take a wild guess that 90+% of things we describe as 'autoimmune' are in fact initially caused by some bacteria/virus/pollution we haven't yet identified. As a wild guess probably a bit high but viruses like EBV are being increasingly suggested as causative of many autoimmune diseases. > I'd like to see research done on mice to reduce the number of viruses and bacteria they are exposed to - for example by sterilizing all air, water, and food for many generations. Then see which ailments go away. May not be the panacea you expect, on the other hand some people think too clean is the problem. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hygiene_hypothesis

londons_explore 3y ago
I think the hygiene hypothesis will turn out to be false, and data pointing in its direction will be the effects of cleaning products.
- bckr 3y ago
  Yes or volatile organic compounds offgassing from manufactured goods
- Llamamoe 3y ago
  The hygiene hypothesis makes sense wrt/ potential allergens, less so a "we should let our kids catch every virus under the sun because air quality standards sound annoying to care about"
Buxato 3y ago
All the herpes family causes tons of health problems, HSV 1 & 2, EBV, Citomegalovirus .... (some of that problems recently discovered but also the main suspect in many other diseases)
- haldujai 3y ago
  The question becomes why do only certain people get the illness? 50-90% of the US population are EBV or CMV positive yet it’s a much smaller percentage that develop autoimmune illnesses. I’m the farthest thing from a rheumatologist but it seems like the favored explanation is a combination of infection and abnormal immune response.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    At which point could this just be pure random chance? I.e. what if EBV or CMV or similar viruses poking at the immune system are like comic rays hitting non-ECC RAM? Most people won't notice most of the time, and some people will experience mysterious crashes or data corruption that don't seem to have any apparent cause.
    - haldujai 3y ago
      Good question, I’m much more familiar with the oncology literature and there is definitely causative evidence linking EBV and to a lesser extent CMV with lymphoma/lymphoproliferative disorders (particularly in the post-transplant setting). I believe the evidence for autoimmune disorders is much weaker (with the caveat that this is well outside my scope of practice), I’ve heard it being implicated in MS from my neurology colleagues but my understanding is it’s a weak correlation at the moment. I can’t offer more than uneducated conjecture on other autoimmune diseases. UpToDate says the following: “One difficulty in proving a link between EBV and MS is that serological evidence of EBV can be found in 83 to 90 percent of adults in the Western hemisphere [99,101,102]. On the other hand, EBV seropositivity among adult MS patients is near 100 percent, significantly higher than healthy controls [91,102-106]. Additionally, children with MS are significantly more likely than healthy peers to have serological evidence for prior EBV infection, at an age when EBV seropositivity is much less common than in adults [107]. However, there is conflicting evidence concerning the presence of EBV in brain tissue of patients with MS [108-111].”
      - zanfr 3y ago
        SARS 1 & 2 same deal
- RobotToaster 3y ago
  I guess the question is, how do we get rid of them?
  - CommanderData 3y ago
    We can't. It's likely impossible to completely remove these latent visues from our bodies. I've been reading into how they establish latentcy and in what cell types. They can infect almost any cell and establish latentcy, they prefer some cells that do not undergo apoptosis, near the brain. There isn't enough funding in the area either.
PaulKeeble 3y ago
Herpes viruses generally. It seems to reactivate on other infections and spread to new cells causing increasing problems in the body. EBV and Herpes seem to hack the immune system to stop these cells from being destroyed. We could do with antivirals that expose these cells or recognise them and destroy them.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- CommanderData 3y ago
  I don't think we'll cure HSV. A drug to limit cell to cell transfer and a vaccine to prevent new spread to other people. But those living with the virus, it is unfortunate it will remain in our bodies forever, it is just too clever, hidden deep within our bodies in many cell types and impossible to remove without rna editing.

londons_explore 3y ago

I think the hygiene hypothesis will turn out to be false, and data pointing in its direction will be the effects of cleaning products.

bckr 3y ago
Yes or volatile organic compounds offgassing from manufactured goods
Llamamoe 3y ago
The hygiene hypothesis makes sense wrt/ potential allergens, less so a "we should let our kids catch every virus under the sun because air quality standards sound annoying to care about"

Buxato 3y ago

All the herpes family causes tons of health problems, HSV 1 & 2, EBV, Citomegalovirus .... (some of that problems recently discovered but also the main suspect in many other diseases)

haldujai 3y ago
The question becomes why do only certain people get the illness? 50-90% of the US population are EBV or CMV positive yet it’s a much smaller percentage that develop autoimmune illnesses. I’m the farthest thing from a rheumatologist but it seems like the favored explanation is a combination of infection and abnormal immune response.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  At which point could this just be pure random chance? I.e. what if EBV or CMV or similar viruses poking at the immune system are like comic rays hitting non-ECC RAM? Most people won't notice most of the time, and some people will experience mysterious crashes or data corruption that don't seem to have any apparent cause.
  - haldujai 3y ago
    Good question, I’m much more familiar with the oncology literature and there is definitely causative evidence linking EBV and to a lesser extent CMV with lymphoma/lymphoproliferative disorders (particularly in the post-transplant setting). I believe the evidence for autoimmune disorders is much weaker (with the caveat that this is well outside my scope of practice), I’ve heard it being implicated in MS from my neurology colleagues but my understanding is it’s a weak correlation at the moment. I can’t offer more than uneducated conjecture on other autoimmune diseases. UpToDate says the following: “One difficulty in proving a link between EBV and MS is that serological evidence of EBV can be found in 83 to 90 percent of adults in the Western hemisphere [99,101,102]. On the other hand, EBV seropositivity among adult MS patients is near 100 percent, significantly higher than healthy controls [91,102-106]. Additionally, children with MS are significantly more likely than healthy peers to have serological evidence for prior EBV infection, at an age when EBV seropositivity is much less common than in adults [107]. However, there is conflicting evidence concerning the presence of EBV in brain tissue of patients with MS [108-111].”
    - zanfr 3y ago
      SARS 1 & 2 same deal
RobotToaster 3y ago
I guess the question is, how do we get rid of them?
- CommanderData 3y ago
  We can't. It's likely impossible to completely remove these latent visues from our bodies. I've been reading into how they establish latentcy and in what cell types. They can infect almost any cell and establish latentcy, they prefer some cells that do not undergo apoptosis, near the brain. There isn't enough funding in the area either.

PaulKeeble 3y ago

Herpes viruses generally. It seems to reactivate on other infections and spread to new cells causing increasing problems in the body. EBV and Herpes seem to hack the immune system to stop these cells from being destroyed. We could do with antivirals that expose these cells or recognise them and destroy them.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
CommanderData 3y ago
I don't think we'll cure HSV. A drug to limit cell to cell transfer and a vaccine to prevent new spread to other people. But those living with the virus, it is unfortunate it will remain in our bodies forever, it is just too clever, hidden deep within our bodies in many cell types and impossible to remove without rna editing.