4 ms·

This is like designing just the right shape of bomb to bring peace to the middle east. Neoliberal solutions dont work on the captains of the neoliberal order.

by pydry 3y ago

This is like designing just the right shape of bomb to bring peace to the middle east. Neoliberal solutions dont work on the captains of the neoliberal order. If you want to bring CEOs to heel the best way to to organize, unionize and strike (if youre not a dev) or unionize and/or covertly work to rule (if you are).

ilaksh 3y ago
That's how the article concludes.
the_sleaze9 3y ago
Why would only software developers work-to-rule? This would be called simple sabotage. What possible gain could be derived from that? Why can't engineers unionize?
- pydry 3y ago
  >Why would only software developers work-to-rule? This would be called simple sabotage. Probably they won't - as a profession it completely lacks class consciousness, as underscored so neatly by this comment of yours. The resultant talent oversupply caused by people chasing middle class wages via bootcamps and an overwhelming lack of solidarity will likely end up with the profession being paid somewhere between "starving physics PhD" and "plumber" for most roles. Striking will probably be tried a few times but, judging by how many software systems ive seen tick over for months with 0 developers, it's likely to fall flat on its face.
beedeebeedee 3y ago
> unionize and strike (if youre not a dev) Why is unionizing and striking not ok for devs? That seems a little cowardly
- pydry 3y ago
  I wasn't passing moral judgment. Striking simply wouldnt work for devs due to the nature of the job.
  - beedeebeedee 3y ago
    Teachers, miners, writers, factory workers, grocers and truckers have gone on strike. How is software development any different? Software developers aren't police, doctors or nurses. There is no safety argument. I've had a few conversations with people who have said the same thing, and the conclusion has been that they don't want to strike because they do not want to lose their jobs, and because culturally they view themselves differently from all of those other people. That sounds cowardly to me- especially when folks like you advocate covert disobedience (i.e., sabotage) instead of overt disobedience like striking. EDIT: I see in a sibling comment that you say software systems can keep running without software developers, and that is why you judge them to be different. In my experience that is only partly true, but in combination with the push for code automation, I can understand the fear that if software developers strike, they will be replaced by AI. I actually think that is more reason to strike and strike now. It is up to software developers to create those job replacing AI systems. Like you said, software developers lack class consciousness- that is more the reason to raise consciousness now- and the best way is through overt action.

by pydry 3y ago

ilaksh 3y ago

That's how the article concludes.

the_sleaze9 3y ago

Why would only software developers work-to-rule? This would be called simple sabotage. What possible gain could be derived from that? Why can't engineers unionize?

pydry 3y ago
>Why would only software developers work-to-rule? This would be called simple sabotage. Probably they won't - as a profession it completely lacks class consciousness, as underscored so neatly by this comment of yours. The resultant talent oversupply caused by people chasing middle class wages via bootcamps and an overwhelming lack of solidarity will likely end up with the profession being paid somewhere between "starving physics PhD" and "plumber" for most roles. Striking will probably be tried a few times but, judging by how many software systems ive seen tick over for months with 0 developers, it's likely to fall flat on its face.

beedeebeedee 3y ago

> unionize and strike (if youre not a dev) Why is unionizing and striking not ok for devs? That seems a little cowardly

pydry 3y ago
I wasn't passing moral judgment. Striking simply wouldnt work for devs due to the nature of the job.
- beedeebeedee 3y ago
  Teachers, miners, writers, factory workers, grocers and truckers have gone on strike. How is software development any different? Software developers aren't police, doctors or nurses. There is no safety argument. I've had a few conversations with people who have said the same thing, and the conclusion has been that they don't want to strike because they do not want to lose their jobs, and because culturally they view themselves differently from all of those other people. That sounds cowardly to me- especially when folks like you advocate covert disobedience (i.e., sabotage) instead of overt disobedience like striking. EDIT: I see in a sibling comment that you say software systems can keep running without software developers, and that is why you judge them to be different. In my experience that is only partly true, but in combination with the push for code automation, I can understand the fear that if software developers strike, they will be replaced by AI. I actually think that is more reason to strike and strike now. It is up to software developers to create those job replacing AI systems. Like you said, software developers lack class consciousness- that is more the reason to raise consciousness now- and the best way is through overt action.