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Ever since learning the phrase "enshittification" [1] from Cory Doctorow it becomes more apparent when it happens around you. I wonder if there is a "fediverse

Ever since learning the phrase "enshittification" [1] from Cory Doctorow it becomes more apparent when it happens around you. I wonder if there is a "fediverse" for something like forums? I can never get into mastodon because it's not like forums and conversations between people are quite hard if you don't follow them. [1] https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/ https://www.wired.com/story/tiktok-platforms-cory-doctorow/

7v3x3n3sem9vv 3y ago
check out Lemmy https://join-lemmy.org/ https://join-lemmy.org/
- nullindividual 3y ago
  Last I checked the main instance became a haven for US domestic terrorists and like-minded ilk.
  - sudosysgen 3y ago
    Perhaps, however the tech works. The point of the fediverse is you can choose who to federate with.
  - jrflowers 3y ago
    [flagged]
proto_lambda 3y ago
Something like that could probably be built on top of the matrix protocol, I'm not aware of anything concrete though.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  https://www.discourse.org/ https://www.discourse.org/ with a discovery mechanism? Would be cool to get Keybase out of Zoom to use for pki identity across various communities. Seems like all the primitives are there, just a lot of grind to do it. Users->Discovery Mechanism->Topics->Threads with all of the trimmings.
  - rapnie 3y ago
    3 different forum softwares are working on ActivityPub support: Discourse (via The Pavilion), Flarum, and nodeBB.
    - azemetre 3y ago
      That's cool, will definitely be checking back on it from time to time.
avdlinde 3y ago
Unfortunately that wired website seems to be following the enshittification protocol.
- azemetre 3y ago
  Sorry you aren't able to read it, he also talks about it here as well: https://doctorow.medium.com/twiddler-1b5c9690cce6 https://doctorow.medium.com/twiddler-1b5c9690cce6 Oddly enough I can't find it actually on his blog.
omnibrain 3y ago
> I wonder if there is a "fediverse" for something like forums? I can never get into mastodon because it's not like forums and conversations between people are quite hard if you don't follow them. Usenet. But it fell out of fashion around the turn of the millenium.
dabluecaboose 3y ago
>I wonder if there is a "fediverse" for something like forums? Closest thing I can think of is the .win communities which are very reddit-like in interface, but unfortunately mostly uh.... radical. Reddit itself was open-source until 2018. I wonder if someone could easily spin up a docker container that allows one to self-host a local instance (e.g. one subreddit)
pembrook 3y ago
> Ever since learning the phrase "enshittification" [1] from Cory Doctorow it becomes more apparent when it happens around you. This is just the natural lifecycle of all things involving humans. Why people want the same stuff to remain dominant forever is baffling to me. I can imagine nothing worse. Reddit dying off to leave space for something new and fresh is a good thing. Social media sites do seem to go through the cycle even faster though--probably because they're essentially digital nightclubs. We all know of that one hip club that everybody waited in line for in our 20s, and then suddenly the drinks get too expensive and the crowd gets older and uncool...and then suddenly there's no line out front anymore. And there's a new spot in town where the young people cluster. Before Reddit there was Digg. After Reddit, I'm confident there will be something else.
- azemetre 3y ago
  I highly disagree. There are many aspects of human life that don't devolve into the enshittification lifecycle. Public parks are one, eating with friends another, debating with people about various topics. It's more about the business side than the human side, the social need will always be there but the business aspect taints it. At least the modern corpo "let's IPO and become billionaires, fuck the people, and chase endless growth" taint it more so.
m463 3y ago
enshittification might be more like the ship of theseus. The original reddit was started by an interesting group of people with different ideas and ideals than who is there now. The people making up reddit might have been replaced with completely different people - with different motivations, behaviors, and expectations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus
- azemetre 3y ago
  Not in my view. Enshittification is more about the business cycle of sucking everything dry for the pursuit of money. Users be damned. At least that's how I read it, ship of theseus is more of an interesting thought experiment but not exactly related.

7v3x3n3sem9vv 3y ago

check out Lemmy https://join-lemmy.org/ https://join-lemmy.org/

nullindividual 3y ago
Last I checked the main instance became a haven for US domestic terrorists and like-minded ilk.
- sudosysgen 3y ago
  Perhaps, however the tech works. The point of the fediverse is you can choose who to federate with.
- jrflowers 3y ago
  [flagged]

proto_lambda 3y ago

Something like that could probably be built on top of the matrix protocol, I'm not aware of anything concrete though.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
https://www.discourse.org/ https://www.discourse.org/ with a discovery mechanism? Would be cool to get Keybase out of Zoom to use for pki identity across various communities. Seems like all the primitives are there, just a lot of grind to do it. Users->Discovery Mechanism->Topics->Threads with all of the trimmings.
- rapnie 3y ago
  3 different forum softwares are working on ActivityPub support: Discourse (via The Pavilion), Flarum, and nodeBB.
  - azemetre 3y ago
    That's cool, will definitely be checking back on it from time to time.

avdlinde 3y ago

Unfortunately that wired website seems to be following the enshittification protocol.

azemetre 3y ago
Sorry you aren't able to read it, he also talks about it here as well: https://doctorow.medium.com/twiddler-1b5c9690cce6 https://doctorow.medium.com/twiddler-1b5c9690cce6 Oddly enough I can't find it actually on his blog.

omnibrain 3y ago

> I wonder if there is a "fediverse" for something like forums? I can never get into mastodon because it's not like forums and conversations between people are quite hard if you don't follow them. Usenet. But it fell out of fashion around the turn of the millenium.

dabluecaboose 3y ago

>I wonder if there is a "fediverse" for something like forums? Closest thing I can think of is the .win communities which are very reddit-like in interface, but unfortunately mostly uh.... radical. Reddit itself was open-source until 2018. I wonder if someone could easily spin up a docker container that allows one to self-host a local instance (e.g. one subreddit)

pembrook 3y ago

> Ever since learning the phrase "enshittification" [1] from Cory Doctorow it becomes more apparent when it happens around you. This is just the natural lifecycle of all things involving humans. Why people want the same stuff to remain dominant forever is baffling to me. I can imagine nothing worse. Reddit dying off to leave space for something new and fresh is a good thing. Social media sites do seem to go through the cycle even faster though--probably because they're essentially digital nightclubs. We all know of that one hip club that everybody waited in line for in our 20s, and then suddenly the drinks get too expensive and the crowd gets older and uncool...and then suddenly there's no line out front anymore. And there's a new spot in town where the young people cluster. Before Reddit there was Digg. After Reddit, I'm confident there will be something else.

azemetre 3y ago
I highly disagree. There are many aspects of human life that don't devolve into the enshittification lifecycle. Public parks are one, eating with friends another, debating with people about various topics. It's more about the business side than the human side, the social need will always be there but the business aspect taints it. At least the modern corpo "let's IPO and become billionaires, fuck the people, and chase endless growth" taint it more so.

m463 3y ago

enshittification might be more like the ship of theseus. The original reddit was started by an interesting group of people with different ideas and ideals than who is there now. The people making up reddit might have been replaced with completely different people - with different motivations, behaviors, and expectations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

azemetre 3y ago
Not in my view. Enshittification is more about the business cycle of sucking everything dry for the pursuit of money. Users be damned. At least that's how I read it, ship of theseus is more of an interesting thought experiment but not exactly related.