8 ms·

America Has Too Much Pork

22 points by lxm 3y ago

BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
> Pork officials say the retail value of pork, which has remained around $5 a pound since the start of 2022, has been too high to attract more customers. $5/lb where? Boneless pork butt, the objectively best cut, is about $2.50/lb here in my major US city through instacart, which notoriously marks up prices. I'm sure that if I went to the store instead of having someone bring it to me it would be even cheaper.
- crazygringo 3y ago
  https://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/lswporkfeatures.pdf https://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/lswporkfeatures.pdf Seems to include things like bacon and deli ham in the average which are obviously much more than $5/lb. Also things like deli-cooked ribs. But it seems to be a meticulously calculated average of actual retail prices.
- gundmc 3y ago
  Bone-in pork shoulder is $5/lb at my store, though if you buy a huge 10 lb package it goes down to $4/lb. Boneless is $6/lb.
  - bityard 3y ago
    Wow. Before the post-pandemic inflation, I refused to buy pork shoulder butt at anything higher than $0.99/lb and always encountered it often enough to keep at least a few pounds in reserve in my freezer. Of course, nowadays my realistic target has to be more like $1.25-$1.50. Inflation sucks but groceries have gotten disproportionately expensive, especially meat. The good deals are out there but it requires a lot more legwork and shopping around than before. People who go to the store and just load up the grocery basket without looking at prices, I don't know how they are even affording to live these days.
    - throwway120385 3y ago
      Inflation really became noticeable for me when the per-pound price of oats went from $1.00-$1.50 a pound in 2020 to $4.50-$5.50 a pound in 2023. Those prices make oats often more expensive than buying garbage toasted corn cereals with sugar additives. I used to buy the bone-in pork shoulder to cut up and use in pressure cooker soups but even those have doubled in price since 2021. I've had to cut back and use more beans and legumes and more bouillon and less meat since then.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Minced pork one pound went from $3.99 in 2017 to $4.99 in 2020 to $5.99 today. This should be the cheapest pork in theory (random pig parts into a blender), but for some reason seems to be fairly expensive and hard to find (given that it is essential to Chinese cooking, we go through a lot).
  - zdragnar 3y ago
    Around here boneless is upwards of $4 but look around and you should be able to find a few stores that have bone in around $2
  - karaterobot 3y ago
    Just checked my go-to grocery store (Town & Country in Seattle), they have non-GMO boneless pork shoulder for $5.99/lb, and, uhh "natural" boneless pork shoulder for $5.29. However, the $5.29 one is currently on sale for $2.99, so excuse me while I run to the store for a second.
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      It’s super annoying. We live near all three in Ballard, and I have to go to QFC for affordable chicken, Safeway for minced pork and affordable pork in general, and Town Country whenever we need something fancy.
  - daotoad 3y ago
    If I go to a massive conglomerate store, Albertson's, Fred Meyer, etc, those are the sort of prices I expect. When I go to the restaurant supply store, I can get bulk packages for $1-$2 a pound. Granted, these are often big, but not massive. Prices today: Tenderloins are a really good deal at $2.59/lb for around 2 pounds and can be easily separated and frozen. Pork loin(boneless, minimal trimming needed) is $2.25/lb for a 10 lb roast and can be trivially sliced into excellent chops and packed up for later. If you want to cook up some cochinita pibil, a picnic cushion with bone and skin is $1.69 for a 10lb average pack. Bone in shoulder butts are $2.05 for ~ 19lb package. It's bit more work and more trimming, but cutting a beef strip loin or boneless ribeye into steaks nets out really well. I'll buy beef loin, trim it for a yield of 75% steaks with 15% in usable beef cubes and the rest in fat and silverskin. I render the fat and cook the nasty bits for the dog. If I only count the steak as yield, my $8/lb loin gets me NY strip steak at ~$11/lb and a bunch of free stuff. You just have to be willing and able to drop $140 on beef, cut it, pack it, and store it. It's less than two hours of work to make all the steaks and render the fat.
  - hinkley 3y ago
    Correct my pig anatomy, but it's shoulder, butt, and then loin, contiguously? My understanding was that loin (pork chops and tenderloin) price a bit higher than butt, and shoulder somewhere in between the other two, or maybe just ahead of chops. Where I'm from, chops, bacon and sausage accounted for more than 90% of your pork intake, and I'm including pork products flavoring other dishes like soup and beans.
    - BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
      > shoulder, butt, and then loin contiguously? If you tend to think about it going up the leg and over the back, then sure. Picnic shoulder is under the shoulder, butt is over the shoulder, and loin is the back.
- stcroixx 3y ago
  Loin is usually more expensive and can get up to around $4/lb.
  - BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
    Loin is IMO not nearly as good because it's too lean anyway.
crazygringo 3y ago
Key quotes: > Pork producers expanded farms and processing plants in recent years as overseas demand boomed. Hog herds in China, the world’s top pork consumer, were devastated by an African swine fever outbreak in 2018. > In 2022, U.S. pork export volumes fell 10% from the year before as China began rebuilding its hog population... With less U.S. pork shipped overseas, more remains at home, where demand has stagnated. > Wholesale pork values fell below $1.50 a pound in April, according to federal data. Pork officials say the retail value of pork, which has remained around $5 a pound since the start of 2022, has been too high to attract more customers. Officials say they expect retail prices to start ticking down in the coming weeks, and that more consumers may turn to pork as beef prices rise.
akiselev 3y ago
https://archive.ph/qGgFL https://archive.ph/qGgFL
prottog 3y ago
Time for the McRib to come back!
- dylan604 3y ago
  as if that's actually pork!
  - tracker1 3y ago
    It is... And far more so than the chicken or fish.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      I read that as there's more pork in the McRib than in the chicken or fish, but now assume you mean more pork in the McRib than similar proportions to the chicken/fish products.
      - tracker1 3y ago
        Yes, that was my meaning. The McRib is mostly pork, with some binders (typical for mechanically separated/joined meat) and form pressed. The nuggets used to be closer to this, but now a lot more filler and less meat, same for the chicken sandwiches. The fish is pretty good, but a lot of breading as a proportion. All said, it's not that bad at all. The bun/roll is far worse, but that is true for most modern breads.
        dylan604 3y ago
        >The bun/roll is far worse, but that is true for most modern breads. Do these "breads" qualify as bread in the EU? Subway's bread had issues, so I'd assume any US based fast food company would fall the same way.
        prottog 3y ago
        As an aside, "bread" is probably my least favorite part of the standard American diet.
neilv 3y ago
How about more R&D into tasty, nutritious, resource-efficient, and cruelty-free food? I'm reminded by whiffs of neighborhood summer barbecues that vegetarian food alternatives still haven't solved every problem, and the clinging to meat isn't just (no pun) pigheadedness.
- pengaru 3y ago
  Profit motives will always pose a problem for consuming heavily processed foods, which is what you're really advocating for here. Fruits and vegetables are tasty already, especially when farmed organically in healthy lands. There's zero need to try process it into meat substitutes, and if you require that level of processing you're going to have to accept the negative health outcomes.
- tracker1 3y ago
  More humane farming is one thing. Trying to replicate or replace nature with processed garbage has had some pretty horrible effects on human health.
- robmusial 3y ago
  I agree. Encouraging more pork consumption when pigs are one of the more resource intensive AND emotionally aware/sentient/social animals seems like a poor decision in the light of climate change and animal cruelty.
stuff4ben 3y ago
Pork isn't considered as lean and healthy as chicken and so it gets a bad rap in online recipes. That's because they seem to be tailored to creating BBQ or pork belly or bacon-wrapped things which are considered unhealthy. But some cuts of pork are lean and can be included in healthier recipes. Pork needs some marketing help in the online recipes dept.
- tracker1 3y ago
  It's sad that some bad science and religion caused such a disproportionate stance against animal fats in general for well over half a century. From fat soluble nutrients to poor hormone production. Combined with industrial food it's definitely taken a toll on society. edit: s/decade/century/
  - riku_iki 3y ago
    > From fat soluble nutrients to poor hormone production. the question is how much extra fat average consumer gets from meat.
    - tracker1 3y ago
      Most meat has a perfectly fine proportion of fat to protein. You, in general should be getting about 1g fat per 2g protein for nutritional levels. Most don't get nearly enough, and what they do get is a very unbalanced ratio from seed oils. Fat can be used for energy, but is also a primary nutrient source. Carbs are solely for energy and the proteins and fats derived from vegetarian sources are of poor quality and low absorption. Most excess energy that gets stored as fat comes from carbohydrate sources, which are much easier for the body to break down.
      - riku_iki 3y ago
        > Most meat has a perfectly fine proportion of fat to protein. I think popular cuts (pork butt, chicken thighs) have worse proportion than that.
mech7654 3y ago
I remember when the egg shortage was going on a few months ago NPR said that we shouldn't expect the retail price of eggs to drop more than about 15% from their then-current highs. Then 2 months later eggs were 50% cheaper at my grocery store.
- jandrese 3y ago
  The egg shortage was massively overblown. It was mostly an excuse for distributors to price gouge for a few months.
  - hinkley 3y ago
    Tyson probably signed some pretty nice contracts during that period.
uranium 3y ago
If the wholesale price is down, and the retail price has yet to fall, someone in the middle must be making a profit. The article seems to imply that nobody is, but the margin must be going somewhere.
- mgkimsal 3y ago
  I would think timing is a factor. Example: * I buy inventory for $5, sell it for $10. * I buy more inventory, but it's gone up to $9. I'm selling for $13, but still have some $10 on hand. * Wholesale plummets to $2. Until I've sold my on-hand inventory, bought more at $2 and sold that, I'm not making any margin, regardless of how low wholesale drops. I imagine the shelf-life for some stuff is short, but maybe longer for others.
- saiya-jin 3y ago
  Nah, its pretty obvious big sellers and middlemen are milking populations like there is no tomorrow. I dont understand why is there no lawsuit anywhere, cartel behavior out in plain sight, affecting literally everybody. Ie Tesco in Europe had record income for past year or two, as did most other mega chains. It a mystery why...
no_wizard 3y ago
I hope this doesn't turn into a situation where the USDA ends up spending a bunch of money on shoring up meat prices for pork markets instead of allowing prices to naturally decline until demand is filled or otherwise allowing markets to do what they do best: find some kind of equilibrium
- morninglight 3y ago
  That wouldn't be kosher. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_barrel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_barrel
freitzkriesler2 3y ago
Whole sale prices are where the magic is at. I have to check what Sam's and Costco are selling at these days. I rarely buy meat at regular retailers because their mark up is insane.
- jollyllama 3y ago
  Around here, Sam's has been gouging for beef. If you go out into the sticks, you can find grocery stores and farms that sell cheaper. Especially if you're buying in bulk.
- bityard 3y ago
  Maybe it's different where you are but I have had both Sam's and Costco memberships (not at the same time) for the last couple of decades and my experience is that their food prices simply do not touch regular grocery store prices around here. The only advantage the membership clubs seem to have is that they are usually going to have what you need if you need if you need to buy like $500 worth of meat for a party or something.
- daotoad 3y ago
  I go to Cash and Carry (well, they've renamed it about 15 times in the past few years, so it's actually US Chef's Store or something dumb like that) for wholesale pricing on meats. Costco near me is pretty much the same price per unit category as grocery stores unless I go to their special wholesale outlets. Costco has better quality and variety that the standard grocery options though.
pram 3y ago
I never liked straight pork (as in like a steak) until my wife made some via sous vide. It instantly shot up high into my favorite dish list. No hyperbole, that’s a life changing way of cooking lol
waingake 3y ago
[flagged]
neuralRiot 3y ago
Livestock production is one of the most environment unfriendly industries yet one of the most subsidized. Sorry kids you’ll have to figure out how to fix the climate.
mmanfrin 3y ago
I remember just a year or two ago people saying the price of Pork was going to skyrocket because of animal welfare laws in CA.
- frumper 3y ago
  Pork shoulders were 99 cents a pound for Cinco de Mayo where I'm at in California. Almost every grocery chain here had that sale. I saw one store that made you jump through some hoops selling them for 80 cents a pound.

22 points by lxm 3y ago

> Pork officials say the retail value of pork, which has remained around $5 a pound since the start of 2022, has been too high to attract more customers. $5/lb where? Boneless pork butt, the objectively best cut, is about $2.50/lb here in my major US city through instacart, which notoriously marks up prices. I'm sure that if I went to the store instead of having someone bring it to me it would be even cheaper.

crazygringo 3y ago
https://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/lswporkfeatures.pdf https://www.ams.usda.gov/mnreports/lswporkfeatures.pdf Seems to include things like bacon and deli ham in the average which are obviously much more than $5/lb. Also things like deli-cooked ribs. But it seems to be a meticulously calculated average of actual retail prices.
gundmc 3y ago
Bone-in pork shoulder is $5/lb at my store, though if you buy a huge 10 lb package it goes down to $4/lb. Boneless is $6/lb.
- bityard 3y ago
  Wow. Before the post-pandemic inflation, I refused to buy pork shoulder butt at anything higher than $0.99/lb and always encountered it often enough to keep at least a few pounds in reserve in my freezer. Of course, nowadays my realistic target has to be more like $1.25-$1.50. Inflation sucks but groceries have gotten disproportionately expensive, especially meat. The good deals are out there but it requires a lot more legwork and shopping around than before. People who go to the store and just load up the grocery basket without looking at prices, I don't know how they are even affording to live these days.
  - throwway120385 3y ago
    Inflation really became noticeable for me when the per-pound price of oats went from $1.00-$1.50 a pound in 2020 to $4.50-$5.50 a pound in 2023. Those prices make oats often more expensive than buying garbage toasted corn cereals with sugar additives. I used to buy the bone-in pork shoulder to cut up and use in pressure cooker soups but even those have doubled in price since 2021. I've had to cut back and use more beans and legumes and more bouillon and less meat since then.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Minced pork one pound went from $3.99 in 2017 to $4.99 in 2020 to $5.99 today. This should be the cheapest pork in theory (random pig parts into a blender), but for some reason seems to be fairly expensive and hard to find (given that it is essential to Chinese cooking, we go through a lot).
- zdragnar 3y ago
  Around here boneless is upwards of $4 but look around and you should be able to find a few stores that have bone in around $2
- karaterobot 3y ago
  Just checked my go-to grocery store (Town & Country in Seattle), they have non-GMO boneless pork shoulder for $5.99/lb, and, uhh "natural" boneless pork shoulder for $5.29. However, the $5.29 one is currently on sale for $2.99, so excuse me while I run to the store for a second.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    It’s super annoying. We live near all three in Ballard, and I have to go to QFC for affordable chicken, Safeway for minced pork and affordable pork in general, and Town Country whenever we need something fancy.
- daotoad 3y ago
  If I go to a massive conglomerate store, Albertson's, Fred Meyer, etc, those are the sort of prices I expect. When I go to the restaurant supply store, I can get bulk packages for $1-$2 a pound. Granted, these are often big, but not massive. Prices today: Tenderloins are a really good deal at $2.59/lb for around 2 pounds and can be easily separated and frozen. Pork loin(boneless, minimal trimming needed) is $2.25/lb for a 10 lb roast and can be trivially sliced into excellent chops and packed up for later. If you want to cook up some cochinita pibil, a picnic cushion with bone and skin is $1.69 for a 10lb average pack. Bone in shoulder butts are $2.05 for ~ 19lb package. It's bit more work and more trimming, but cutting a beef strip loin or boneless ribeye into steaks nets out really well. I'll buy beef loin, trim it for a yield of 75% steaks with 15% in usable beef cubes and the rest in fat and silverskin. I render the fat and cook the nasty bits for the dog. If I only count the steak as yield, my $8/lb loin gets me NY strip steak at ~$11/lb and a bunch of free stuff. You just have to be willing and able to drop $140 on beef, cut it, pack it, and store it. It's less than two hours of work to make all the steaks and render the fat.
- hinkley 3y ago
  Correct my pig anatomy, but it's shoulder, butt, and then loin, contiguously? My understanding was that loin (pork chops and tenderloin) price a bit higher than butt, and shoulder somewhere in between the other two, or maybe just ahead of chops. Where I'm from, chops, bacon and sausage accounted for more than 90% of your pork intake, and I'm including pork products flavoring other dishes like soup and beans.
  - BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
    > shoulder, butt, and then loin contiguously? If you tend to think about it going up the leg and over the back, then sure. Picnic shoulder is under the shoulder, butt is over the shoulder, and loin is the back.
stcroixx 3y ago
Loin is usually more expensive and can get up to around $4/lb.
- BugsJustFindMe 3y ago
  Loin is IMO not nearly as good because it's too lean anyway.

crazygringo 3y ago

Key quotes: > Pork producers expanded farms and processing plants in recent years as overseas demand boomed. Hog herds in China, the world’s top pork consumer, were devastated by an African swine fever outbreak in 2018. > In 2022, U.S. pork export volumes fell 10% from the year before as China began rebuilding its hog population... With less U.S. pork shipped overseas, more remains at home, where demand has stagnated. > Wholesale pork values fell below $1.50 a pound in April, according to federal data. Pork officials say the retail value of pork, which has remained around $5 a pound since the start of 2022, has been too high to attract more customers. Officials say they expect retail prices to start ticking down in the coming weeks, and that more consumers may turn to pork as beef prices rise.

akiselev 3y ago

https://archive.ph/qGgFL https://archive.ph/qGgFL

prottog 3y ago

Time for the McRib to come back!

dylan604 3y ago
as if that's actually pork!
- tracker1 3y ago
  It is... And far more so than the chicken or fish.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    I read that as there's more pork in the McRib than in the chicken or fish, but now assume you mean more pork in the McRib than similar proportions to the chicken/fish products.
    - tracker1 3y ago
      Yes, that was my meaning. The McRib is mostly pork, with some binders (typical for mechanically separated/joined meat) and form pressed. The nuggets used to be closer to this, but now a lot more filler and less meat, same for the chicken sandwiches. The fish is pretty good, but a lot of breading as a proportion. All said, it's not that bad at all. The bun/roll is far worse, but that is true for most modern breads.
      - dylan604 3y ago
        >The bun/roll is far worse, but that is true for most modern breads. Do these "breads" qualify as bread in the EU? Subway's bread had issues, so I'd assume any US based fast food company would fall the same way.
        prottog 3y ago
        As an aside, "bread" is probably my least favorite part of the standard American diet.

neilv 3y ago

How about more R&D into tasty, nutritious, resource-efficient, and cruelty-free food? I'm reminded by whiffs of neighborhood summer barbecues that vegetarian food alternatives still haven't solved every problem, and the clinging to meat isn't just (no pun) pigheadedness.

pengaru 3y ago
Profit motives will always pose a problem for consuming heavily processed foods, which is what you're really advocating for here. Fruits and vegetables are tasty already, especially when farmed organically in healthy lands. There's zero need to try process it into meat substitutes, and if you require that level of processing you're going to have to accept the negative health outcomes.
tracker1 3y ago
More humane farming is one thing. Trying to replicate or replace nature with processed garbage has had some pretty horrible effects on human health.
robmusial 3y ago
I agree. Encouraging more pork consumption when pigs are one of the more resource intensive AND emotionally aware/sentient/social animals seems like a poor decision in the light of climate change and animal cruelty.

stuff4ben 3y ago

Pork isn't considered as lean and healthy as chicken and so it gets a bad rap in online recipes. That's because they seem to be tailored to creating BBQ or pork belly or bacon-wrapped things which are considered unhealthy. But some cuts of pork are lean and can be included in healthier recipes. Pork needs some marketing help in the online recipes dept.

tracker1 3y ago
It's sad that some bad science and religion caused such a disproportionate stance against animal fats in general for well over half a century. From fat soluble nutrients to poor hormone production. Combined with industrial food it's definitely taken a toll on society. edit: s/decade/century/
- riku_iki 3y ago
  > From fat soluble nutrients to poor hormone production. the question is how much extra fat average consumer gets from meat.
  - tracker1 3y ago
    Most meat has a perfectly fine proportion of fat to protein. You, in general should be getting about 1g fat per 2g protein for nutritional levels. Most don't get nearly enough, and what they do get is a very unbalanced ratio from seed oils. Fat can be used for energy, but is also a primary nutrient source. Carbs are solely for energy and the proteins and fats derived from vegetarian sources are of poor quality and low absorption. Most excess energy that gets stored as fat comes from carbohydrate sources, which are much easier for the body to break down.
    - riku_iki 3y ago
      > Most meat has a perfectly fine proportion of fat to protein. I think popular cuts (pork butt, chicken thighs) have worse proportion than that.

mech7654 3y ago

I remember when the egg shortage was going on a few months ago NPR said that we shouldn't expect the retail price of eggs to drop more than about 15% from their then-current highs. Then 2 months later eggs were 50% cheaper at my grocery store.

jandrese 3y ago
The egg shortage was massively overblown. It was mostly an excuse for distributors to price gouge for a few months.
- hinkley 3y ago
  Tyson probably signed some pretty nice contracts during that period.

uranium 3y ago

If the wholesale price is down, and the retail price has yet to fall, someone in the middle must be making a profit. The article seems to imply that nobody is, but the margin must be going somewhere.

mgkimsal 3y ago
I would think timing is a factor. Example: * I buy inventory for $5, sell it for $10. * I buy more inventory, but it's gone up to $9. I'm selling for $13, but still have some $10 on hand. * Wholesale plummets to $2. Until I've sold my on-hand inventory, bought more at $2 and sold that, I'm not making any margin, regardless of how low wholesale drops. I imagine the shelf-life for some stuff is short, but maybe longer for others.
saiya-jin 3y ago
Nah, its pretty obvious big sellers and middlemen are milking populations like there is no tomorrow. I dont understand why is there no lawsuit anywhere, cartel behavior out in plain sight, affecting literally everybody. Ie Tesco in Europe had record income for past year or two, as did most other mega chains. It a mystery why...

no_wizard 3y ago

I hope this doesn't turn into a situation where the USDA ends up spending a bunch of money on shoring up meat prices for pork markets instead of allowing prices to naturally decline until demand is filled or otherwise allowing markets to do what they do best: find some kind of equilibrium

morninglight 3y ago
That wouldn't be kosher. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_barrel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_barrel

freitzkriesler2 3y ago

Whole sale prices are where the magic is at. I have to check what Sam's and Costco are selling at these days. I rarely buy meat at regular retailers because their mark up is insane.

jollyllama 3y ago
Around here, Sam's has been gouging for beef. If you go out into the sticks, you can find grocery stores and farms that sell cheaper. Especially if you're buying in bulk.
bityard 3y ago
Maybe it's different where you are but I have had both Sam's and Costco memberships (not at the same time) for the last couple of decades and my experience is that their food prices simply do not touch regular grocery store prices around here. The only advantage the membership clubs seem to have is that they are usually going to have what you need if you need if you need to buy like $500 worth of meat for a party or something.
daotoad 3y ago
I go to Cash and Carry (well, they've renamed it about 15 times in the past few years, so it's actually US Chef's Store or something dumb like that) for wholesale pricing on meats. Costco near me is pretty much the same price per unit category as grocery stores unless I go to their special wholesale outlets. Costco has better quality and variety that the standard grocery options though.

pram 3y ago

I never liked straight pork (as in like a steak) until my wife made some via sous vide. It instantly shot up high into my favorite dish list. No hyperbole, that’s a life changing way of cooking lol

waingake 3y ago

[flagged]

neuralRiot 3y ago

Livestock production is one of the most environment unfriendly industries yet one of the most subsidized. Sorry kids you’ll have to figure out how to fix the climate.

mmanfrin 3y ago

I remember just a year or two ago people saying the price of Pork was going to skyrocket because of animal welfare laws in CA.

frumper 3y ago
Pork shoulders were 99 cents a pound for Cinco de Mayo where I'm at in California. Almost every grocery chain here had that sale. I saw one store that made you jump through some hoops selling them for 80 cents a pound.