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This podcast provides a non-partisan overview of what the FBI did related to Hillary Clinton’s email servers and Trump’s Russian collusion investigation: https

This podcast provides a non-partisan overview of what the FBI did related to Hillary Clinton’s email servers and Trump’s Russian collusion investigation: https://reason.com/podcast/2023/05/26/eli-lake-trump-russiagate-and-the-end-of-fbi-credibility/ https://reason.com/podcast/2023/05/26/eli-lake-trump-russiag... Even the extra-informed person could be forgiven from knowing the ins and outs of this because of how long it has gone on. But this is a great summary. Essentially the FBI is a rogue agency. They have no one watching them. They are beyond repair, and even when it comes to presidential candidates they have no limits to their ability to violate constitutional rights and lie under oath. Their leaders have no dedication to upholding the truth - it’s about protecting themselves. A thoroughly corrupt organization. When people say “drain the swamp” the FBI is target number 1.

kevviiinn 3y ago
All law enforcement agencies have the same amount of zero oversight that the FBI has, but local police departments also get to terrorize their local communities with military hardware on top of constant monitoring with stuff like Palantir
- dontupvoteme 3y ago
  They listen to the mossad at least.
  - kevviiinn 3y ago
    Yea because Israel is exactly the same as the US if not worse in terms of terrorizing the Palestinians
- local_crmdgeon 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ahiknsr 3y ago
    > which is why crime is rising catastrophically and people are fleeing to states like Texas. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/texas-governor-seeks-to-pardon-man-found-guilty-of-murdering-black-lives-matter-protester https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/texas-governor-seeks-to-pa...
    - local_crmdgeon 3y ago
      Please attempt to refute the central point instead of posting non-sequitors. Engaging in good faith is what keeps this place from being Twitter.
  - Arkhaine_kupo 3y ago
    > which is why crime is rising catastrophically and people are fleeing to states like Texas. California violent crime rate : 25.2 / 100k Texas violent crime rate : 24.8 / 100k California property crime : 35.4 / 100k Texas property crime. : 38.0 / 100k Yep, trully a disproportionate crime rate that warrants narratives about "people fleeing", which btw is not happening, demographic movements have been pretty steady. Largest moves have been a few real state companies and some dudes with podcasts. > at some point y'all have to look at SF and say "huh, maybe we weren't right about everything" Is SF somehow not part of the american police state? Like what part of California is suddenly this leftist utopia and warrants careful consideration before american follows suit into hell? Cali is notorious for NIMBYism, where police are called by rich white liberals to keep minorities, homeless etc away. Police action is as violent and as class aware as anywhere else in the US. The SF police budget is 780 million yearly, that would put them above 60 countries on earth by gdp. The entire country of micronesia, with 500k people could work for 2 whole years and not be able to pay 1 year of the SF police budget.
    - local_crmdgeon 3y ago
      Yes, Californians and New Yorkers and Minnesotans are moving to red states in droves. Source: https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/05/21/5-charts-that-explain-the-california-and-bay-area-exodus/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/05/21/5-charts-that-explain... That's why there are fearmongering billboards going up in SF: https://www.newsweek.com/billboards-warn-california-residents-not-move-texas-after-mass-exodus-1737368 https://www.newsweek.com/billboards-warn-california-resident... Pretending that the exodus isn't happening isn't going to change the fact that SF is a failing city. Seattle, Philly, and NYC have just voted in pro-cop mayors who are running on a "fund the police" platform. Most of that vote comes from minorities, particularly Black people (in the case of Eric Adams and Cherelle Parker) Please, please, please try to address your problems today, before things get worse. Last time I was in Seattle people were shocked that I'd never seen someone shit on the street in Detroit.
- xyzelement 3y ago
  I hear this but I don't experience it. Living in NYC as a poor immigrant teen 1990s through upper-middle-class (or whatever) adult through 2021, I did not feel "terrorized" by the NYPD. Now I live in a small town not far from NYC and the police are literally part of the community, it's a few dozen folks that most people in town know on first name basis. No terrorizing. To be clear, as someone who grew up in the USSR, I am certainly in sync with the idea that police can be oppressive, it just does not resonate at all with what I see in my now 3 decades in the US.
  - kevviiinn 3y ago
    Did you grow up as a black american? People from different communities have radically different experiences, which is why we see denials such as yours
    - xyzelement 3y ago
      Did you? FWIW I grew up very much "in the hood" in Brooklyn.
      - goolz 3y ago
        No, but I agree with them. I live in the hood and am white and live an easy life compared to those who are not. Get some perspective. EDIT: and my whole family is from BK, what was once filled with immigrants is now filled with the rich and privileged in most parts. All I am saying is that if you wanna use anecdotes so can I. Brown people in this country are systemically treated like trash. I see it every day. I don’t fear my life but I sure would if I was a 16 year old black kid in my city (Philadelphia).
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
        A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
        I come from the old country that has ( maybe had? ) fairly homogeneous population. We still had locations you did not go to after dark, pathology that rivaled some of the ghetto stories and police that could abuse you if they so chose ( communism - cops could really do whatever ). I posit that the issue is poverty and people. We just kinda suck as a species. I am saying it is not the skin color. I am saying it is generations of living in ways that make integration into society somewhat hard. << Get some perspective. I believe parent is correct. Immigrants from Africa are able to prosper in US, because they are not bound by culture infused in them by the 'street'. The fact is he made it out despite being the 'wrong' color.
bell-cot 3y ago
> Essentially the FBI is a rogue agency. They have no one watching them. They are beyond repair... Outside of dictatorships, is there any law enforcement agency that gets the sort of oversight and accountability which the government departments (say) plowing snow off the roads receive? I am not aware of any. And outside of utopian delusions, "eliminate law enforcement" doesn't actually work in a large, modern-ish society - they are very quickly replaced by even-less-accountable private vigilante groups / criminal gangs / military / etc. Human nature abhors a power vacuum. Perhaps it would be more useful to look at who benefits from unaccountable law enforcement, and do something about the roots of the problem? Especially look at all the "innocent citizens" who really don't want to believe "good cops" may be rotten creeps, or to hear about the messy details of law enforcement unofficially upholding a social order which is quite beneficial to those "innocent" citizens.
- monero-xmr 3y ago
  I never said I thought an institution with similar powers to the FBI shouldn’t exist. I said that the FBI itself has proven itself beyond repair and control. So it should be disbanded. I can think of many ways it could be done better but for decades the same problems at the FBI have been occurring so the slate needs to be wiped clean.
  - bell-cot 3y ago
    With similar powers (and similar lack if oversight), I’m thinking that such an FBI-replacement agency would have similar problems in very short order. Sounds like a laborious feel-good exercise.
    - monero-xmr 3y ago
      You are somehow advocating for the FBI by saying “yes it’s a corrupt mess but nothing could ever be better”. What a defeatist, nihilistic opinion.
      - bell-cot 3y ago
hotpotamus 3y ago
> even when it comes to presidential candidates I get that some of us are more equal than others, but the ideal is that even the president is not above the law, and a candidate isn't even the president yet.
- lordloki 3y ago
  Right, but neither are they below the law and proper standards should be followed and proper justifications met before investigations begin.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
SkyMarshal 3y ago
FYI, Reason.com is far from non-partisan.
- boomboomsubban 3y ago
  It's openly a libertarian organization[1] arguing a government agency should be shut down. Definitely partisan, though doesn't mean their conclusion is wrong here. https://reason.com/about/ https://reason.com/about/
- partiallypro 3y ago
  It's not "partisan" in the sense that it is for Democrats or Republicans. It is partisan in that it's libertarian (small l) leaning. That's not as bad, viewing a civil item through a civil libertarian lens doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong.
- monero-xmr 3y ago
  [flagged]

kevviiinn 3y ago

All law enforcement agencies have the same amount of zero oversight that the FBI has, but local police departments also get to terrorize their local communities with military hardware on top of constant monitoring with stuff like Palantir

dontupvoteme 3y ago
They listen to the mossad at least.
- kevviiinn 3y ago
  Yea because Israel is exactly the same as the US if not worse in terms of terrorizing the Palestinians
local_crmdgeon 3y ago
[flagged]
- ahiknsr 3y ago
  > which is why crime is rising catastrophically and people are fleeing to states like Texas. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/texas-governor-seeks-to-pardon-man-found-guilty-of-murdering-black-lives-matter-protester https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/texas-governor-seeks-to-pa...
  - local_crmdgeon 3y ago
    Please attempt to refute the central point instead of posting non-sequitors. Engaging in good faith is what keeps this place from being Twitter.
- Arkhaine_kupo 3y ago
  > which is why crime is rising catastrophically and people are fleeing to states like Texas. California violent crime rate : 25.2 / 100k Texas violent crime rate : 24.8 / 100k California property crime : 35.4 / 100k Texas property crime. : 38.0 / 100k Yep, trully a disproportionate crime rate that warrants narratives about "people fleeing", which btw is not happening, demographic movements have been pretty steady. Largest moves have been a few real state companies and some dudes with podcasts. > at some point y'all have to look at SF and say "huh, maybe we weren't right about everything" Is SF somehow not part of the american police state? Like what part of California is suddenly this leftist utopia and warrants careful consideration before american follows suit into hell? Cali is notorious for NIMBYism, where police are called by rich white liberals to keep minorities, homeless etc away. Police action is as violent and as class aware as anywhere else in the US. The SF police budget is 780 million yearly, that would put them above 60 countries on earth by gdp. The entire country of micronesia, with 500k people could work for 2 whole years and not be able to pay 1 year of the SF police budget.
  - local_crmdgeon 3y ago
    Yes, Californians and New Yorkers and Minnesotans are moving to red states in droves. Source: https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/05/21/5-charts-that-explain-the-california-and-bay-area-exodus/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2023/05/21/5-charts-that-explain... That's why there are fearmongering billboards going up in SF: https://www.newsweek.com/billboards-warn-california-residents-not-move-texas-after-mass-exodus-1737368 https://www.newsweek.com/billboards-warn-california-resident... Pretending that the exodus isn't happening isn't going to change the fact that SF is a failing city. Seattle, Philly, and NYC have just voted in pro-cop mayors who are running on a "fund the police" platform. Most of that vote comes from minorities, particularly Black people (in the case of Eric Adams and Cherelle Parker) Please, please, please try to address your problems today, before things get worse. Last time I was in Seattle people were shocked that I'd never seen someone shit on the street in Detroit.
xyzelement 3y ago
I hear this but I don't experience it. Living in NYC as a poor immigrant teen 1990s through upper-middle-class (or whatever) adult through 2021, I did not feel "terrorized" by the NYPD. Now I live in a small town not far from NYC and the police are literally part of the community, it's a few dozen folks that most people in town know on first name basis. No terrorizing. To be clear, as someone who grew up in the USSR, I am certainly in sync with the idea that police can be oppressive, it just does not resonate at all with what I see in my now 3 decades in the US.
- kevviiinn 3y ago
  Did you grow up as a black american? People from different communities have radically different experiences, which is why we see denials such as yours
  - xyzelement 3y ago
    Did you? FWIW I grew up very much "in the hood" in Brooklyn.
    - goolz 3y ago
      No, but I agree with them. I live in the hood and am white and live an easy life compared to those who are not. Get some perspective. EDIT: and my whole family is from BK, what was once filled with immigrants is now filled with the rich and privileged in most parts. All I am saying is that if you wanna use anecdotes so can I. Brown people in this country are systemically treated like trash. I see it every day. I don’t fear my life but I sure would if I was a 16 year old black kid in my city (Philadelphia).
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
      - A4ET8a8uTh0 3y ago
        I come from the old country that has ( maybe had? ) fairly homogeneous population. We still had locations you did not go to after dark, pathology that rivaled some of the ghetto stories and police that could abuse you if they so chose ( communism - cops could really do whatever ). I posit that the issue is poverty and people. We just kinda suck as a species. I am saying it is not the skin color. I am saying it is generations of living in ways that make integration into society somewhat hard. << Get some perspective. I believe parent is correct. Immigrants from Africa are able to prosper in US, because they are not bound by culture infused in them by the 'street'. The fact is he made it out despite being the 'wrong' color.

bell-cot 3y ago

> Essentially the FBI is a rogue agency. They have no one watching them. They are beyond repair... Outside of dictatorships, is there any law enforcement agency that gets the sort of oversight and accountability which the government departments (say) plowing snow off the roads receive? I am not aware of any. And outside of utopian delusions, "eliminate law enforcement" doesn't actually work in a large, modern-ish society - they are very quickly replaced by even-less-accountable private vigilante groups / criminal gangs / military / etc. Human nature abhors a power vacuum. Perhaps it would be more useful to look at who benefits from unaccountable law enforcement, and do something about the roots of the problem? Especially look at all the "innocent citizens" who really don't want to believe "good cops" may be rotten creeps, or to hear about the messy details of law enforcement unofficially upholding a social order which is quite beneficial to those "innocent" citizens.

monero-xmr 3y ago
I never said I thought an institution with similar powers to the FBI shouldn’t exist. I said that the FBI itself has proven itself beyond repair and control. So it should be disbanded. I can think of many ways it could be done better but for decades the same problems at the FBI have been occurring so the slate needs to be wiped clean.
- bell-cot 3y ago
  With similar powers (and similar lack if oversight), I’m thinking that such an FBI-replacement agency would have similar problems in very short order. Sounds like a laborious feel-good exercise.
  - monero-xmr 3y ago
    You are somehow advocating for the FBI by saying “yes it’s a corrupt mess but nothing could ever be better”. What a defeatist, nihilistic opinion.
    - bell-cot 3y ago

hotpotamus 3y ago

> even when it comes to presidential candidates I get that some of us are more equal than others, but the ideal is that even the president is not above the law, and a candidate isn't even the president yet.

lordloki 3y ago
Right, but neither are they below the law and proper standards should be followed and proper justifications met before investigations begin.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

SkyMarshal 3y ago

FYI, Reason.com is far from non-partisan.

boomboomsubban 3y ago
It's openly a libertarian organization[1] arguing a government agency should be shut down. Definitely partisan, though doesn't mean their conclusion is wrong here. https://reason.com/about/ https://reason.com/about/
partiallypro 3y ago
It's not "partisan" in the sense that it is for Democrats or Republicans. It is partisan in that it's libertarian (small l) leaning. That's not as bad, viewing a civil item through a civil libertarian lens doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong.
monero-xmr 3y ago
[flagged]