6 ms·

Are you breathing? Do you have email apnea? (2014)

100 points by DerCommodore 3y ago

samuell 3y ago
I read this page as I observed I had a very cramped, almost non-existent, breathing. Time to enjoy some sweet O_2 molecules.
2-718-281-828 3y ago
breathing is learned and habitual but also a direct consequence of one's mental state and condition. a relaxed person probably won't breath shallow. for one because that normally contradicts a physical state of relaxation and second because someone who breathes shallow will have a tough time relaxing. it goes both ways. it's also important to realize that healthy breathing is biologically the normal state. it's more that our tense and anxious society with it's unhealthy conditioning turns people into bad breathers. now looking at those exceptional professions she lists what comes to my mind is not just that those people breathe professionally good but also that those jobs don't require you to open and read mails whose content is often highly unpleasant and daunting on a daily basis. so, one reason why office workers breathe less good while working and opening mails in particularly might also be because they are afraid of reading mails. i can say for myself that this is true. i almost never looked forward to open a mail at work. at best it didn't evoke any emotion but usually mild stress and anxious anticipation.
- kashunstva 3y ago
  > now looking at those exceptional professions she lists what comes to my mind is not just that those people breathe professionally good but also that those jobs don't require you to open and read mails whose content is often highly unpleasant Professional musician here - one of her listed professions. Believe or not, unpleasant emails are part of my experience too. But honestly, I don’t understand why this introduction to therapeutic breathing is specific to email in any case. Breath-holding and shallow breathing are common with any high-stress situation. I notice it myself and in students leading up to and in the midst of technically-demanding passages. But I’m deeply sceptical that the solution is anything more than developing better awareness of one’s habitual responses and deliberately reprogramming them.
  - 2-718-281-828 3y ago
    i assume you're not trapped in a cage-like environment staring at a screen for 8 hours constantly receiving messages while feeling observed and judged. it's a big difference just occasionally receiving a mail and some of them can be unpleasant.
    - giraffe_lady 3y ago
      Why would you assume that? "Professional musician" covers an incredibly wide range of experiences but large swathes of that easily fall into solo entrepreneur. Even among professionals very very few musicians are practicing or performing for the majority of their working time.
Cthulhu_ 3y ago
Funny, a lot of people seem to hold their breath when focusing on something; my girlfriend does it while gaming. I never noticed my breathing changes while doing anything, although it does seem to become more audible sometimes. But, it's automatic so I don't really pay much attention to it. Also, it kinda sounds like advertising for this breathing method mentioned, but the website doesn't explain the breathing method, just tries to sell it to you then refer you to a practitioner.
- latexr 3y ago
  > Also, it kinda sounds like advertising for this breathing method mentioned, but the website doesn't explain the breathing method, just tries to sell it to you then refer you to a practitioner. I briefly looked into it and got the same vibe from Transcendental Meditation, that it’s mostly a scam. They take a very basic practice and convince you it has miraculous results and that it is impossible to learn except by paying them obscene amounts of money. I never paid for or practiced either method, so I cannot give a first-hand account. But years ago I did look into Transcendental Meditation extensively and was not convinced it has anything worth paying for, as confirmed by multiple accounts of people who had tried it. The documentary David Want to Fly is particularly interesting from the perspective of someone who really wanted to like it by influence of David Lynch. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wants_to_Fly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wants_to_Fly I first heard of Buteyko from this post so I haven’t done thorough research, but a cursory glance reveals the health claims may be greatly exaggerated. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15907677/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15907677/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buteyko_method#Medical_evidence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buteyko_method#Medical_evidenc... https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2019/jul/15/buteyko-the-dangerous-truth-about-the-new-celebrity-breathing-sensation https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2019/jul/...
- Roark66 3y ago
  I noticed this in myself in few extreme focus situations. Mostly when driving or riding a motorcycle and suddenly having to dodge stuff at high speed.
- amelius 3y ago
anilakar 3y ago
I have found the same issue with videoconferencing especially with participants who have a low bandwidth connection, background noise and echo or a bad microphone. Also having to listen to my coworker with completely broken word stress feels like I'm being beaten with a shovel
catboybotnet 3y ago
Normally, I don't hold my breath reading an email. If anything, I'm doing a lot of (frustrated) exhaling. Now, when it comes to games? Yeah, it happens! When nerves are involved, you tend to lock up in many ways. In general, it seems like the solution is to get some (aerobic) exercise. Or breathing practices? Judging by other comments, probably not this Buteyko method.
vonnik 3y ago
It’s not email, it’s anything you do on a small screen: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-05605-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-05605-0
- xutopia 3y ago
  These describe two different problems.
- yamrzou 3y ago
  Discussed at the time: Reading on smartphone affects sigh generation, brain activity, and comprehension - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30181560 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30181560 - Feb 2022 (125 comments)
thwowary1234 3y ago
Late last year i started to have a lot of stomach gas and as a result i burp what feels like hundreds of times per day. Initially I thought it might have something to do with sugar free drinks but by now I believe that's less likely. It happens much stronger when I drink caffeine, often caffeinated sugar drinks. So I assume it has something to do with this. But it also happens when I don't take any caffeine, it's just less strong. I have not yet done a proper medical examination since that is very annoying to do. Other than the burping I have zero issues. I feel strongly that it has something to do with what I eat and I am trying to figure that out. But caffeine is hard to stay away from... Lately I've got a feeling that there might be a psychological component to it as well. Around that time I quit my job, tried my hands on a few personal projects, got a light depression and so on. This article is very interesting since I spend most of the day in front of a screen, mostly reading, bad posture, very hectic etc. Caffeine always makes me tense and could very well be a catalyst. Any suggestions for how I could monitor my breathing?
- Bernard_sha_256 3y ago
  I've had similar issues with belching before, and it turned out I had an Ulcer (H. Pylori Infection). You can pretty quickly get a breath test done at one of those cheapo lab clinics, but also after I got that test I went to a GI doc and did an endoscopy and there was some underlying acid reflux that I'm still figuring out how to handle.
- unity1001 3y ago
  Concentration also causes less energy to be sent to the digestive system because the energy gets diverted to the brain. Concentration is an evolutionary 'fight or flight' adaptation. Therefore when you are highly concentrating, its possible that your digestion gets impaired. Couple this with shallow breathing, then you would have even less energy available for digestion. Which causes the food to be badly digested, leading to gas and even various syndromes that cause irritation & inflammation in the intestines and even the body in general. Because when a non-digested piece of food enters the intestines, the body can easily trigger the immune responses of the body, thinking that 'a foreign substance has entered the digestive system' (which is natural). This kind of digestive problems, IBS etc seem to be common in tech circles.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
y-curious 3y ago
Full disclosure: I am biased because my mother is an expert in Buteyko breathing and myofunctional therapy and runs a practice called HappyMyo. This stuff is something I ALWAYS wrote off as hokey garbage, until I tried it. Training the breathing (and the musculature of the face, not mentioned much in the article) completely got rid of my snoring. I have heard of other testimonials from athletes of improved performance as well. If you have one of the conditions that Buteyko/myofunctional therapy can help, I highly recommend you research it before surgery, assuming it's relatively benign.
csours 3y ago
When I'm cycling hard and I have to think about something like shifting or starting to go uphill and concentrating on that effort, I've noticed that I don't breath enough. I've also noticed that I breath differently standing up and sitting down. While sitting down, there is less room in my abdomen for my lungs to expand, and that leads to shallower breaths.
fouric 3y ago
This is really interesting to me because it implies that shallow breathing for long periods of time is a bad thing. I previously assumed that it was a good thing, due to interpolation from martial arts training - breathing exercises -> body becomes more efficient at pulling oxygen from the air and using it. I think I may need to reevaluate my assumptions.

100 points by DerCommodore 3y ago

I read this page as I observed I had a very cramped, almost non-existent, breathing. Time to enjoy some sweet O_2 molecules.

2-718-281-828 3y ago

breathing is learned and habitual but also a direct consequence of one's mental state and condition. a relaxed person probably won't breath shallow. for one because that normally contradicts a physical state of relaxation and second because someone who breathes shallow will have a tough time relaxing. it goes both ways. it's also important to realize that healthy breathing is biologically the normal state. it's more that our tense and anxious society with it's unhealthy conditioning turns people into bad breathers. now looking at those exceptional professions she lists what comes to my mind is not just that those people breathe professionally good but also that those jobs don't require you to open and read mails whose content is often highly unpleasant and daunting on a daily basis. so, one reason why office workers breathe less good while working and opening mails in particularly might also be because they are afraid of reading mails. i can say for myself that this is true. i almost never looked forward to open a mail at work. at best it didn't evoke any emotion but usually mild stress and anxious anticipation.

kashunstva 3y ago
> now looking at those exceptional professions she lists what comes to my mind is not just that those people breathe professionally good but also that those jobs don't require you to open and read mails whose content is often highly unpleasant Professional musician here - one of her listed professions. Believe or not, unpleasant emails are part of my experience too. But honestly, I don’t understand why this introduction to therapeutic breathing is specific to email in any case. Breath-holding and shallow breathing are common with any high-stress situation. I notice it myself and in students leading up to and in the midst of technically-demanding passages. But I’m deeply sceptical that the solution is anything more than developing better awareness of one’s habitual responses and deliberately reprogramming them.
- 2-718-281-828 3y ago
  i assume you're not trapped in a cage-like environment staring at a screen for 8 hours constantly receiving messages while feeling observed and judged. it's a big difference just occasionally receiving a mail and some of them can be unpleasant.
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    Why would you assume that? "Professional musician" covers an incredibly wide range of experiences but large swathes of that easily fall into solo entrepreneur. Even among professionals very very few musicians are practicing or performing for the majority of their working time.

Cthulhu_ 3y ago

Funny, a lot of people seem to hold their breath when focusing on something; my girlfriend does it while gaming. I never noticed my breathing changes while doing anything, although it does seem to become more audible sometimes. But, it's automatic so I don't really pay much attention to it. Also, it kinda sounds like advertising for this breathing method mentioned, but the website doesn't explain the breathing method, just tries to sell it to you then refer you to a practitioner.

latexr 3y ago
> Also, it kinda sounds like advertising for this breathing method mentioned, but the website doesn't explain the breathing method, just tries to sell it to you then refer you to a practitioner. I briefly looked into it and got the same vibe from Transcendental Meditation, that it’s mostly a scam. They take a very basic practice and convince you it has miraculous results and that it is impossible to learn except by paying them obscene amounts of money. I never paid for or practiced either method, so I cannot give a first-hand account. But years ago I did look into Transcendental Meditation extensively and was not convinced it has anything worth paying for, as confirmed by multiple accounts of people who had tried it. The documentary David Want to Fly is particularly interesting from the perspective of someone who really wanted to like it by influence of David Lynch. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wants_to_Fly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Wants_to_Fly I first heard of Buteyko from this post so I haven’t done thorough research, but a cursory glance reveals the health claims may be greatly exaggerated. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15907677/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15907677/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buteyko_method#Medical_evidence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buteyko_method#Medical_evidenc... https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2019/jul/15/buteyko-the-dangerous-truth-about-the-new-celebrity-breathing-sensation https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/shortcuts/2019/jul/...
Roark66 3y ago
I noticed this in myself in few extreme focus situations. Mostly when driving or riding a motorcycle and suddenly having to dodge stuff at high speed.
amelius 3y ago

anilakar 3y ago

I have found the same issue with videoconferencing especially with participants who have a low bandwidth connection, background noise and echo or a bad microphone. Also having to listen to my coworker with completely broken word stress feels like I'm being beaten with a shovel

catboybotnet 3y ago

Normally, I don't hold my breath reading an email. If anything, I'm doing a lot of (frustrated) exhaling. Now, when it comes to games? Yeah, it happens! When nerves are involved, you tend to lock up in many ways. In general, it seems like the solution is to get some (aerobic) exercise. Or breathing practices? Judging by other comments, probably not this Buteyko method.

vonnik 3y ago

It’s not email, it’s anything you do on a small screen: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-05605-0 https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-022-05605-0

xutopia 3y ago
These describe two different problems.
yamrzou 3y ago
Discussed at the time: Reading on smartphone affects sigh generation, brain activity, and comprehension - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30181560 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30181560 - Feb 2022 (125 comments)

thwowary1234 3y ago

Late last year i started to have a lot of stomach gas and as a result i burp what feels like hundreds of times per day. Initially I thought it might have something to do with sugar free drinks but by now I believe that's less likely. It happens much stronger when I drink caffeine, often caffeinated sugar drinks. So I assume it has something to do with this. But it also happens when I don't take any caffeine, it's just less strong. I have not yet done a proper medical examination since that is very annoying to do. Other than the burping I have zero issues. I feel strongly that it has something to do with what I eat and I am trying to figure that out. But caffeine is hard to stay away from... Lately I've got a feeling that there might be a psychological component to it as well. Around that time I quit my job, tried my hands on a few personal projects, got a light depression and so on. This article is very interesting since I spend most of the day in front of a screen, mostly reading, bad posture, very hectic etc. Caffeine always makes me tense and could very well be a catalyst. Any suggestions for how I could monitor my breathing?

Bernard_sha_256 3y ago
I've had similar issues with belching before, and it turned out I had an Ulcer (H. Pylori Infection). You can pretty quickly get a breath test done at one of those cheapo lab clinics, but also after I got that test I went to a GI doc and did an endoscopy and there was some underlying acid reflux that I'm still figuring out how to handle.
unity1001 3y ago
Concentration also causes less energy to be sent to the digestive system because the energy gets diverted to the brain. Concentration is an evolutionary 'fight or flight' adaptation. Therefore when you are highly concentrating, its possible that your digestion gets impaired. Couple this with shallow breathing, then you would have even less energy available for digestion. Which causes the food to be badly digested, leading to gas and even various syndromes that cause irritation & inflammation in the intestines and even the body in general. Because when a non-digested piece of food enters the intestines, the body can easily trigger the immune responses of the body, thinking that 'a foreign substance has entered the digestive system' (which is natural). This kind of digestive problems, IBS etc seem to be common in tech circles.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

y-curious 3y ago

Full disclosure: I am biased because my mother is an expert in Buteyko breathing and myofunctional therapy and runs a practice called HappyMyo. This stuff is something I ALWAYS wrote off as hokey garbage, until I tried it. Training the breathing (and the musculature of the face, not mentioned much in the article) completely got rid of my snoring. I have heard of other testimonials from athletes of improved performance as well. If you have one of the conditions that Buteyko/myofunctional therapy can help, I highly recommend you research it before surgery, assuming it's relatively benign.

csours 3y ago

When I'm cycling hard and I have to think about something like shifting or starting to go uphill and concentrating on that effort, I've noticed that I don't breath enough. I've also noticed that I breath differently standing up and sitting down. While sitting down, there is less room in my abdomen for my lungs to expand, and that leads to shallower breaths.

fouric 3y ago

This is really interesting to me because it implies that shallow breathing for long periods of time is a bad thing. I previously assumed that it was a good thing, due to interpolation from martial arts training - breathing exercises -> body becomes more efficient at pulling oxygen from the air and using it. I think I may need to reevaluate my assumptions.