4 ms·

That makes for a great headline, but it's wrong. He absolutely did not ignore profit: he understood its proper place better than most. Jobs loved profit. He un

by shingen 15y ago

That makes for a great headline, but it's wrong. He absolutely did not ignore profit: he understood its proper place better than most. Jobs loved profit. He understood that the best products, marketed properly, can produce extraordinary profits. He wanted his products to generate a lot of profit so he could keep plowing that necessary profit back into producing ever better insanely great creations. He most certainly did not eschew profits, he understood not to put the profit before the product. There's a very big and critical difference between eschewing profits and knowing their place.

Jarred 15y ago
Can you cite where you learned this from (Steve Jobs' view on profits)?
- shingen 15y ago
  In his biography he talks about the importance of Apple generating a profit in order to re-invest into producing new products. That healthy profits were not only necessary but desirable to that end. I believe he has also said as much in interviews in talking in general about the nature of business (I will try to dig those up). It's why he recognized that a company was the best vehicle to use to marry his love of the arts with technology, as he is quoted in his book. It's perfectly logical, as it's not cheap to do what Apple does when it comes to creating. There's a reason they just hit $100 billion in cash - Jobs knew full well the value of profit and what it should properly be used for. They know the value and safety in being able to build what you want to, and not being constrained for oxygen due to low cash or debt or lack of profits.
  - kokey 15y ago
    The way I see it is that because he wants to be profitable by innovating and delivering great products, he was aware that he should not let innovation be hampered by profit motives. This is especially important in the market he was operating in, and working around this problem gave them an edge.
- batista 15y ago
  People can form opinions themselves you know, we are not all content to be "secondary sources". He doesn't have to have "learned" it in some specific source, besides observing Steve Jobs actions and words. So, I find this "citation needed" meme, when the thing discussed is some personal opinion or a value judgement or an estimation or some sort, to be ridiculous.
  - StavrosK 15y ago
    Seriously, what could the citation be? A quote from Jobs saying "I love profit. I understand that the best products, marketed properly, can produce extraordinary profits."? Asking for citations for fact-based claims is absolutely a good practice, but citations for opinions/conclusions are, in many cases, not feasible. That said, I think the GP probably meant "what do you base this conclusion on?".
  - mattgreenrocks 15y ago
    > I find this "citation needed" meme, when the thing discussed is some personal opinion or a value judgement or an estimation or some sort, to be ridiculous. It's important to note that these sorts of people are often not interested in a discussion; they merely want to be proved right on the Internet by hiding behind the perceived invincibility of empirical facts. You are right: it is toxic, pedantic, and not something that most people would have the gall to say in real life. Thus, not worthy of being addressed. (edit: though the grandparent post was nowhere near as bad as others I've seen.)
- collypops 15y ago
  "The opinions expressed are their own." ^^ First sentence of the article. You don't need to cite references to give a counter _opinion_
  - chc 15y ago
    It's probably a good idea unless you're OK with your opinion appearing uninformed. In general, an opinion is not some magical thing which is exempt from evaluation. "IMO the Earth is flat" may be qualified as an opinion, but it would probably lessen your opinion of the speaker just the same.
- VMG 15y ago
  simply look at the profit margins
- jmtame 15y ago
  'But the most lucrative and amusing part was the blue box. Wozniak showed its virtues to his friends. Wozniak made some calls to his sister who was working on a kibbutz in Israel. On Jobs's urging the pair turned a pastime into a small business and began selling the devices. "He wanted money," Wozniak said of his partner.' From Return to Little Kingdom by Michael Moritz: http://jmtame.posterous.com/hes-got-the-whole-world-in-his-hand http://jmtame.posterous.com/hes-got-the-whole-world-in-his-h...
- michaelpinto 15y ago
  actually i remember a video from a conference when he first returned to apple: he was doing an entire riff on "think profit" which was based on "think different". part of this was killing sacred cows when he got there: everything from hypercard to the newton was thrown away. he also learned his lessons from NeXT and didn't build a factory.
- spinchange 15y ago
  One could start with their financials: Apple has 40% gross margins (5 year average). Since 2007, they have more than doubled these margins. In that same time, they've also introduced several new products. They are making more and making more from what they make. This all tends suggest that Steve Jobs not only valued profits but gave them the kind of treatment the OP suggests.
- bradleyland 15y ago
  It needs no citation. There is de facto proof. In an industry that has historically been driven to commoditization, Steve Jobs, at the helm of Apple, built a company that enjoyed margins many times that of their competitors.
tvon 15y ago
I think not putting profits first qualifies as "ignoring profits" as far as standard business practices are concerned.
- foreverbanned 15y ago
  Moreover, I am pretty sure that Apple iProduct prices are carefully crafted to maximize profit. They could be sold with a much lower margin and completely crunch the competition. So, it seems that at least between profits and market domination, profits come first.
warmfuzzykitten 15y ago
Yes, specifically between creating new, profitable products and protecting existing profits. As his biography shows, Steve Jobs was always focused on new products but took a long time to learn that profitability was essential to success. The Lisa, the original Macintosh and the Next cube were unprofitable. Had he not learned that excellence must come with a price premium, Jobs would have been a business failure. Once he learned this, well, look at the telephone handset market. Apple enjoys a small slice of the volume and the lion's share of the profits in the entire industry.

by shingen 15y ago

Jarred 15y ago

Can you cite where you learned this from (Steve Jobs' view on profits)?

shingen 15y ago
In his biography he talks about the importance of Apple generating a profit in order to re-invest into producing new products. That healthy profits were not only necessary but desirable to that end. I believe he has also said as much in interviews in talking in general about the nature of business (I will try to dig those up). It's why he recognized that a company was the best vehicle to use to marry his love of the arts with technology, as he is quoted in his book. It's perfectly logical, as it's not cheap to do what Apple does when it comes to creating. There's a reason they just hit $100 billion in cash - Jobs knew full well the value of profit and what it should properly be used for. They know the value and safety in being able to build what you want to, and not being constrained for oxygen due to low cash or debt or lack of profits.
- kokey 15y ago
  The way I see it is that because he wants to be profitable by innovating and delivering great products, he was aware that he should not let innovation be hampered by profit motives. This is especially important in the market he was operating in, and working around this problem gave them an edge.
batista 15y ago
People can form opinions themselves you know, we are not all content to be "secondary sources". He doesn't have to have "learned" it in some specific source, besides observing Steve Jobs actions and words. So, I find this "citation needed" meme, when the thing discussed is some personal opinion or a value judgement or an estimation or some sort, to be ridiculous.
- StavrosK 15y ago
  Seriously, what could the citation be? A quote from Jobs saying "I love profit. I understand that the best products, marketed properly, can produce extraordinary profits."? Asking for citations for fact-based claims is absolutely a good practice, but citations for opinions/conclusions are, in many cases, not feasible. That said, I think the GP probably meant "what do you base this conclusion on?".
- mattgreenrocks 15y ago
  > I find this "citation needed" meme, when the thing discussed is some personal opinion or a value judgement or an estimation or some sort, to be ridiculous. It's important to note that these sorts of people are often not interested in a discussion; they merely want to be proved right on the Internet by hiding behind the perceived invincibility of empirical facts. You are right: it is toxic, pedantic, and not something that most people would have the gall to say in real life. Thus, not worthy of being addressed. (edit: though the grandparent post was nowhere near as bad as others I've seen.)
collypops 15y ago
"The opinions expressed are their own." ^^ First sentence of the article. You don't need to cite references to give a counter _opinion_
- chc 15y ago
  It's probably a good idea unless you're OK with your opinion appearing uninformed. In general, an opinion is not some magical thing which is exempt from evaluation. "IMO the Earth is flat" may be qualified as an opinion, but it would probably lessen your opinion of the speaker just the same.
VMG 15y ago
simply look at the profit margins
jmtame 15y ago
'But the most lucrative and amusing part was the blue box. Wozniak showed its virtues to his friends. Wozniak made some calls to his sister who was working on a kibbutz in Israel. On Jobs's urging the pair turned a pastime into a small business and began selling the devices. "He wanted money," Wozniak said of his partner.' From Return to Little Kingdom by Michael Moritz: http://jmtame.posterous.com/hes-got-the-whole-world-in-his-hand http://jmtame.posterous.com/hes-got-the-whole-world-in-his-h...
michaelpinto 15y ago
actually i remember a video from a conference when he first returned to apple: he was doing an entire riff on "think profit" which was based on "think different". part of this was killing sacred cows when he got there: everything from hypercard to the newton was thrown away. he also learned his lessons from NeXT and didn't build a factory.
spinchange 15y ago
One could start with their financials: Apple has 40% gross margins (5 year average). Since 2007, they have more than doubled these margins. In that same time, they've also introduced several new products. They are making more and making more from what they make. This all tends suggest that Steve Jobs not only valued profits but gave them the kind of treatment the OP suggests.
bradleyland 15y ago
It needs no citation. There is de facto proof. In an industry that has historically been driven to commoditization, Steve Jobs, at the helm of Apple, built a company that enjoyed margins many times that of their competitors.

tvon 15y ago

I think not putting profits first qualifies as "ignoring profits" as far as standard business practices are concerned.

foreverbanned 15y ago
Moreover, I am pretty sure that Apple iProduct prices are carefully crafted to maximize profit. They could be sold with a much lower margin and completely crunch the competition. So, it seems that at least between profits and market domination, profits come first.

warmfuzzykitten 15y ago

Yes, specifically between creating new, profitable products and protecting existing profits. As his biography shows, Steve Jobs was always focused on new products but took a long time to learn that profitability was essential to success. The Lisa, the original Macintosh and the Next cube were unprofitable. Had he not learned that excellence must come with a price premium, Jobs would have been a business failure. Once he learned this, well, look at the telephone handset market. Apple enjoys a small slice of the volume and the lion's share of the profits in the entire industry.