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Well written article, but most of the "harms" described (aside from the Therac-25) are a direct result of attempting to replace human-to-human contact with tech

Well written article, but most of the "harms" described (aside from the Therac-25) are a direct result of attempting to replace human-to-human contact with technology. 1) Instead of relying on a phone alarm to wake you up, use a device designed for that purpose, or request a wake-up call (on a landline, if you have one). 2) Overcome the conflict between having a phone and not wanting to answer it. 3) When unusual and specific instructions are required, make sure you speak with a person to confirm them.

groestl 3y ago
And Therac-25 was trying to remove hardware interlocks from Therac-6 and Therac-20, to fully rely on software, AFAIK.
tczMUFlmoNk 3y ago
I agree with you that the trajectory of removing human-to-human contact, even as a fallback, is causing harm. And I agree with your interpretation of your point (3): having an option to speak to a human would have gone a long way here. I'm not sure that I agree with your point (1): a modern smartphone is a device designed for that purpose, among other things, and it is virtuous to use a multi-purpose device for this instead of building, transporting, and disposing of a dozen bespoke devices for each such purpose. But reducing the complex interpersonal relationship between the author and her mom to just "overcome the conflict" is a really low-bar take. It feels callous to suggest that it would be so easy, or to assume that she's not trying to do this, or even that this is the right path forward for her. Technology should serve us and adapt to the diversity of our needs, as we change as people and those needs change with us.
taneq 3y ago
I don’t think “software is unreliable and you should never trust it” is the outcome we should be hoping for here. If I burn to death in a Ford Pinto, would you tell me I should have ridden a horse?
- intelVISA 3y ago
  Depends, was the horse sold to you with a potentially fatal, albeit financially acceptable, defect?
  - taneq 3y ago
    Horses are, by all accounts, far more dangerous than Ford Pintos. And yet, since we concede that they possess some measure of agency, we tend to blame the horse rather than the stable. I’ve often thought that our ultimate measure of a “person” is the ability to accept liability.
wink 3y ago
> a direct result of attempting to replace human-to-human contact with technology Anecdata and all but when did you last try ordering food via telephone? Our "error rate" in wrong or forgotten delivery items has gone down by SO MUCH since we order online instead of giving instructions via phone. And no, it's not forgetting to say something, it's always been one person reading from a written list with the others listening in and double-checking (talking about bi-weekly board game night, they usually don't mess up if your order is 2 pizzas)

groestl 3y ago

And Therac-25 was trying to remove hardware interlocks from Therac-6 and Therac-20, to fully rely on software, AFAIK.

tczMUFlmoNk 3y ago

I agree with you that the trajectory of removing human-to-human contact, even as a fallback, is causing harm. And I agree with your interpretation of your point (3): having an option to speak to a human would have gone a long way here. I'm not sure that I agree with your point (1): a modern smartphone is a device designed for that purpose, among other things, and it is virtuous to use a multi-purpose device for this instead of building, transporting, and disposing of a dozen bespoke devices for each such purpose. But reducing the complex interpersonal relationship between the author and her mom to just "overcome the conflict" is a really low-bar take. It feels callous to suggest that it would be so easy, or to assume that she's not trying to do this, or even that this is the right path forward for her. Technology should serve us and adapt to the diversity of our needs, as we change as people and those needs change with us.

taneq 3y ago

I don’t think “software is unreliable and you should never trust it” is the outcome we should be hoping for here. If I burn to death in a Ford Pinto, would you tell me I should have ridden a horse?

intelVISA 3y ago
Depends, was the horse sold to you with a potentially fatal, albeit financially acceptable, defect?
- taneq 3y ago
  Horses are, by all accounts, far more dangerous than Ford Pintos. And yet, since we concede that they possess some measure of agency, we tend to blame the horse rather than the stable. I’ve often thought that our ultimate measure of a “person” is the ability to accept liability.

wink 3y ago

> a direct result of attempting to replace human-to-human contact with technology Anecdata and all but when did you last try ordering food via telephone? Our "error rate" in wrong or forgotten delivery items has gone down by SO MUCH since we order online instead of giving instructions via phone. And no, it's not forgetting to say something, it's always been one person reading from a written list with the others listening in and double-checking (talking about bi-weekly board game night, they usually don't mess up if your order is 2 pizzas)