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Literally every company in the world wants to avoid creating a record of defects. It opens them up to litigation and bad PR. That would put their shareholders a

Literally every company in the world wants to avoid creating a record of defects. It opens them up to litigation and bad PR. That would put their shareholders at risk, which would effectively be negligence. Have you never heard of a data retention policy? Every company has them. They exist to delete records that could be used in a lawsuit or by a whistleblower. They tend to find whatever the regulatory maximum is and put their limit at a little past that.

hef19898 3y ago
>> Tend to find whatever the regulatory maximun is This not a question of finding it so, the same way it is not a way of "finding" the speed limit on a certain stretch of road. And those retention policies are there to preserve records for the potential of future law suits. The absence of records that actually should be there doesn't do any service turing a trial or other dispute. Quite the opposite, usuall, it is assumed those records were deleted for the very reason ypu stated, meaning the company doing it almost guilty from the get go. Funny how you have the facts almost right, but everythong else backwards.
swalling 3y ago
> Literally every company in the world wants to avoid creating a record of defects. No. The most effective companies in the world are the ones with the fastest feedback loops, and in the absence of directly measuring customer use of the product, sharing searchable records of defects is the best way to accomplish this. This is particularly the case in services companies like software. We will not only collect written defect reports but we circulate them in real time throughout the company so that issues can be fixed as fast as possible. At any good SaaS company, the Zendesk tickets, Salesforce records, and recorded customer calls from tools like Gong are often funneled directly into Slack or email alerts for anyone to see without even having to go search for them. Tesla insisting on unrecorded verbal communication is a shady practice only mirrored by con artists, HR hacks, and bloodsucking lawyers.
- gtirloni 3y ago
  >throughout the company Sure, but Tesla is concerned with leaks becoming PR disasters for every little issue with their cars. Can't say I blame them, giving the routine unwarranted panic it generates. I doubt your company is making that data public.
  - wahnfrieden 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - gtirloni 3y ago
      You're not new here to be using such language in your comments.
  - swalling 3y ago
    If you have to seriously worry about bugs becoming public you fucked up big time. Having ridden in their cars with the self-driving mode, it's obvious that Tesla simply makes shoddy, unsafe vehicles. Trying to hide the issues rather than prevent or fix them won't save them.
    - gtirloni 3y ago
      > If you have to seriously worry about bugs becoming public you fucked up big time So? Yes, you fucked up big time and you don't want the public to know. That's PR 101. > Trying to hide the issues rather than prevent or fix them won't save them. Where did you get it that they are not trying to prevent the issues?
- throwaway892238 3y ago
  Companies don't care about "effectiveness". They care about the share price. If sharing customer defects makes the share price go up, they'll do it. If they find out it risks the share price, they'll clamp down on it. Tesla insisting on unrecorded verbal communication for specific circumstances is not uncommon at all. Often it's at the direct instruction of their legal counsel. You're just not aware of it, because it's secret (and protected by NDAs and an army of lawyers), so you don't hear about it, and thus assume it's uncommon. Corporate unethical bullshit is an iceberg. You will never see the vast majority of it.
awritawirj 3y ago
I work for an automotive company and I think the argument "who's procecting our shareholders?" with no mention of "who's protecting the lives of our customers?" is bullshit.
bandyaboot 3y ago
Telling your employees not to communicate with customers in any other way but live voice is not normal.

hef19898 3y ago

>> Tend to find whatever the regulatory maximun is This not a question of finding it so, the same way it is not a way of "finding" the speed limit on a certain stretch of road. And those retention policies are there to preserve records for the potential of future law suits. The absence of records that actually should be there doesn't do any service turing a trial or other dispute. Quite the opposite, usuall, it is assumed those records were deleted for the very reason ypu stated, meaning the company doing it almost guilty from the get go. Funny how you have the facts almost right, but everythong else backwards.

swalling 3y ago

> Literally every company in the world wants to avoid creating a record of defects. No. The most effective companies in the world are the ones with the fastest feedback loops, and in the absence of directly measuring customer use of the product, sharing searchable records of defects is the best way to accomplish this. This is particularly the case in services companies like software. We will not only collect written defect reports but we circulate them in real time throughout the company so that issues can be fixed as fast as possible. At any good SaaS company, the Zendesk tickets, Salesforce records, and recorded customer calls from tools like Gong are often funneled directly into Slack or email alerts for anyone to see without even having to go search for them. Tesla insisting on unrecorded verbal communication is a shady practice only mirrored by con artists, HR hacks, and bloodsucking lawyers.

gtirloni 3y ago
>throughout the company Sure, but Tesla is concerned with leaks becoming PR disasters for every little issue with their cars. Can't say I blame them, giving the routine unwarranted panic it generates. I doubt your company is making that data public.
- wahnfrieden 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - gtirloni 3y ago
    You're not new here to be using such language in your comments.
- swalling 3y ago
  If you have to seriously worry about bugs becoming public you fucked up big time. Having ridden in their cars with the self-driving mode, it's obvious that Tesla simply makes shoddy, unsafe vehicles. Trying to hide the issues rather than prevent or fix them won't save them.
  - gtirloni 3y ago
    > If you have to seriously worry about bugs becoming public you fucked up big time So? Yes, you fucked up big time and you don't want the public to know. That's PR 101. > Trying to hide the issues rather than prevent or fix them won't save them. Where did you get it that they are not trying to prevent the issues?
throwaway892238 3y ago
Companies don't care about "effectiveness". They care about the share price. If sharing customer defects makes the share price go up, they'll do it. If they find out it risks the share price, they'll clamp down on it. Tesla insisting on unrecorded verbal communication for specific circumstances is not uncommon at all. Often it's at the direct instruction of their legal counsel. You're just not aware of it, because it's secret (and protected by NDAs and an army of lawyers), so you don't hear about it, and thus assume it's uncommon. Corporate unethical bullshit is an iceberg. You will never see the vast majority of it.

awritawirj 3y ago

I work for an automotive company and I think the argument "who's procecting our shareholders?" with no mention of "who's protecting the lives of our customers?" is bullshit.

bandyaboot 3y ago

Telling your employees not to communicate with customers in any other way but live voice is not normal.