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As an NRI, I continue to be disappointed by the country I called home for most of my life. Between the politics and the pollution in Delhi, I fear I can never

by dagmx 3y ago

As an NRI, I continue to be disappointed by the country I called home for most of my life. Between the politics and the pollution in Delhi, I fear I can never really return home. The last time I was home, I was struggling every day to breathe because Delhi has crazy air in the winter. While high school friends were telling me about how they don’t believe in equal rights, justifying any means to achieving a Hindu country. This is just one more nail in the coffin of a potentially great, secular country that once dared to v̵o̵t̵e̵ place a g̵r̵e̵a̵t̵ scientist as president. How far we’ve fallen since. I’m just heartbroken over what my country has become. Edit: for the countless fans of India that will show up to tell me how to feel about the country, please don’t. I really don’t care to hear the latest talking point on why Infrastructure is worth human rights abuses or whatever lets you sleep at night. My opinion is my own and you can please pound sand. You are part of what makes me mourn my country.

pkphilip 3y ago
I agree. And unfortunately, I think we have reached an inflection point in India from which we cannot go back to the way things were just about 12-15 years ago.
screye 3y ago
It is a conundrum, because the same NRIs oppose bills that would solve India's problems. The ban on crop burning (main cause of Delhi's pollution) was central to the farm bill. But protesting farmers (widely supported in the west) opposed it, and the bill died despite having democratic approval (both national opinion and sufficient votes) > dared to vote a great scientist to president We do not vote for Presidents in India. The president was selected by the ruling party (The same BJP as Modi) to be the ceremonial president. The same one that has now elected a tribal woman to President, to signify secular allegiances. > believe in equal rights If we are to use leaders as a yardstick to measure equality opportunities and rights, then the incompetent ~6th generation heir of the Nehru/Gandhi family leading the opposition is hardly a good look. > disappointed by the country I called home for most of my life As a fellow NRI, this is counter to what I hear from my fellow Indians. There is a ton of optimism around jobs, infrastructure growth and economic policies that are finally opening up the nation, as India embraces the US after decades spent close to the Russia. > potentially great, secular country Even as a big supporter of liberal (as in valuing liberty, low authoritarianism) democracies, the evidence for free-democracies industrializing is exactly zero. Every big nation that has successfully escaped poverty has done so through suffocatingly authoritarian means (SK, Japan, Taiwan, Chile, China, Thailand, Malaysia). Every single one of them only transitioned to a proper liberal democracy (if at all) AFTER industrialization had been achieved. It is depressing. But, the numbers don't lie.
- dagmx 3y ago
  I corrected the means by which the president is chosen (it’s a vote by the electoral college so it wasn’t completely incorrect to say vote though). Thanks for mentioning that. I don’t think I agree with your other points. But I do hope your optimism pans out because right now things feel bleak.
  - shri_krishna 3y ago
    The reality on ground is different from what you read in the press or even online. We see the work being done. When work wasn't being done (recent example of Karnataka), people voted BJP out. The alternative (Congress) came to power promising loads of freebies. Now voters on the ground are pissed off (plenty of videos where people are not willing to pay electricity bills or public transport fares because Congress said it'll make all of that free but never did so till date). So this hyperbole on BJP being "evil" is largely overblown and it is quite persistent in the Hacker News circles. Ultimately the voter decides based on whether the Party in power delivers or not. BJP has been doing great work on the infrastructure/development front as well as attracting investment. That is visible on the ground. What BJP is lacking severely is in State level leadership/politics which needs to be fixed. Congress on the other hand has given up its National ambitions and pursuing weaknesses it sees in BJP's state level politics. This is vibrancy of democracy. Nothing to feel "bleak" about unless you are drowning yourself in anti-India Western media reports and thinking that is the truth. Maybe you need to ask yourself if you are also part of a misinformation bubble yourself without even realizing it?
    - dagmx 3y ago
      I absolutely hate the way fellow Indians will just try and deflect negative stories about India as western propaganda. You do a disservice to your country by following that tired playbook. Did you ever stop to consider that I am actually well informed and genuinely disappointed with my country. Criticism of the country and party doesn’t mean I’m simply misinformed. I was critical of things when I lived there, I consume my news directly from Indian news sites. Maybe you need to ask yourself why you feel the need to assume it’s western propaganda?
kalam_throw 3y ago
[flagged]
- dagmx 3y ago
  While those criticisms are true, and I won’t dispute it, he was also a huge symbol for many to actually trust in science and push the country forward. Sometimes what the symbol represents is more important than the contents itself
codegeek 3y ago
For non Indians, NRI = Non Resident Indian i.e. an Indian who lives outside India. In case someone wondered. It is easy to shit on the party in office which is BJP right now but show me a country that can have hundreds of languages, all religions and still survive for centuries as one country. Europe couldn't do it. They broke into EU (for better or worse). There are flaws but India is a complex country of various cultures and you have to understand the nuances. Congress party ruled India for decades after Independence in 1947 and all they could do was to keep India as a 3rd world country while other similar countries progressed economically. Fun fact: Until the early 1980s, India and China were same econonically when COngress ruled India for decades. And talk about authoritarianism ? Who was the one who declared emergency in 1974 and suspended all "civil rights". That was Indira Gandhi from Congress, the so called "secular" party. My point is that there is no saint and people in india like BJP because they are at least doing some work in various areas including infrastructure, economy and areas that have been neglected for decades. So yea, people wanted change and they got change with Modi as a strong leader. Source: Also an NRI who is a naturalized US Citizen and I see a lot of positives among all the negatives that Media loves to portray.
- dagmx 3y ago
  All I see is a lot of whataboutism to justify some truly heinous actions that have been committed in the past several years. Yeah, Indira Gandhi wasn’t great either. Congress has its flaws. None of that justifies the actions of today. Yes, the BJP has done some good things, but that’s true of many heinous authoritarians in the past as well. No number of good things simply wash their hands of the bad stuff along the way.
  - sremani 3y ago
    The right word would be 'Abuse of power', if every center-right politician is labeled Authoritarian -- it will become a meaningless word.
- throwaway384629 3y ago
  Is "Congress party also bad!" still a primary defence of Mr. Modi who is in power for about 10 years now? I think NRIs are praising Modi because he is helping with the fall of Rupee as compared to other currencies so NRIs get maximum return when they send home USD. Will you be able to share some examples of "at least doing some work in various areas"? 1. I see BJP government as expert in data manipulator and creating smoke screens through their network of social media cell and mainstream TV channels. [1] 2. As per Govt data, over 80 crore people in India currently depend upon government for free food. [2] 3. Modi government manipulated the GDP calculation method to show higher GDP growth. [3] 4. Modi government changed the calculation method to measure the length of highways. Going by lane km, the total length of highways constructed during 2017-18 fiscal comes to 34,378 km as against 9829 km if counted linearly. [4] [1] https://zeenews.india.com/india/get-maths-lessons-bjp-faces-twitter-backlash-over-confusing-graphic-on-petrol-diesel-prices-2140211.html https://zeenews.india.com/india/get-maths-lessons-bjp-faces-... [2] https://www.livemint.com/news/india/over-80-crore-people-to-get-free-ration-for-one-year-11671855017328.html https://www.livemint.com/news/india/over-80-crore-people-to-... [3] https://scroll.in/article/954986/the-daily-fix-is-modi-government-fudging-the-data-to-show-gdp-growth-above-5 https://scroll.in/article/954986/the-daily-fix-is-modi-gover... [4] https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/now-new-concept-to-measure-length-of-highways-from-april-1/story-Q44qGgFzl4DsAPv5OIG0YI_amp.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/now-new-concept-to...
neel8986 3y ago
We are looking at a ruling government who uses AI to demean olympic winning athlete to protect a serial molester. Somehow even after all this heinous acts I can see bunch of so called educated techies defending that ruling class. Is the hate for "other" religion so strong?
primitivesuave 3y ago
I'm an NRI/US citizen, have worked/traveled in the country extensively, and have shared my thoughts on HN many times regarding my country of origin. There is a prevalent "Indian apologist" mentality both inside and outside the country, which applauds anyone spinning the "happy people living with less" or "beautiful ancient culture" montage and shouting down anyone trying to put the preponderance of societal problems into perspective.
- shuklaritam 3y ago
  No it’s just the Indian voter telling the West/white guy to shut up and mind one’s own business. He knows problems exist and have always existed but they are being magnified more to demean the leadership that is trying to solve more problems per unit time. Regime change is what the West excels at.
testHNac 3y ago
Regarding human rights abuses if you live in the USA I wonder what makes it better. People are crying all over every conceivable media about how racial, sexual, financial discrimination is taking place. Millionaire celebrities are 'Victims' of a variety of abuse - Racial, Sexual etc etc People getting randomly shot in a shootout every other day. Stores can't stay open due to getting robbed as it's 'legally' allowed. Kids can't pay loans for college, people are barely living thanks to shtty minimum wage. Seems like it's common for people to sh*t on the roads in San Francisco. Kids education becoming sub standard thanks to politicians. Most of the West seems to be heading in the same direction. Since you see are obviously comfortable in that environment. Please don't come back. You can remain heartbroken in the West.

by dagmx 3y ago

pkphilip 3y ago

I agree. And unfortunately, I think we have reached an inflection point in India from which we cannot go back to the way things were just about 12-15 years ago.

screye 3y ago

It is a conundrum, because the same NRIs oppose bills that would solve India's problems. The ban on crop burning (main cause of Delhi's pollution) was central to the farm bill. But protesting farmers (widely supported in the west) opposed it, and the bill died despite having democratic approval (both national opinion and sufficient votes) > dared to vote a great scientist to president We do not vote for Presidents in India. The president was selected by the ruling party (The same BJP as Modi) to be the ceremonial president. The same one that has now elected a tribal woman to President, to signify secular allegiances. > believe in equal rights If we are to use leaders as a yardstick to measure equality opportunities and rights, then the incompetent ~6th generation heir of the Nehru/Gandhi family leading the opposition is hardly a good look. > disappointed by the country I called home for most of my life As a fellow NRI, this is counter to what I hear from my fellow Indians. There is a ton of optimism around jobs, infrastructure growth and economic policies that are finally opening up the nation, as India embraces the US after decades spent close to the Russia. > potentially great, secular country Even as a big supporter of liberal (as in valuing liberty, low authoritarianism) democracies, the evidence for free-democracies industrializing is exactly zero. Every big nation that has successfully escaped poverty has done so through suffocatingly authoritarian means (SK, Japan, Taiwan, Chile, China, Thailand, Malaysia). Every single one of them only transitioned to a proper liberal democracy (if at all) AFTER industrialization had been achieved. It is depressing. But, the numbers don't lie.

dagmx 3y ago
I corrected the means by which the president is chosen (it’s a vote by the electoral college so it wasn’t completely incorrect to say vote though). Thanks for mentioning that. I don’t think I agree with your other points. But I do hope your optimism pans out because right now things feel bleak.
- shri_krishna 3y ago
  The reality on ground is different from what you read in the press or even online. We see the work being done. When work wasn't being done (recent example of Karnataka), people voted BJP out. The alternative (Congress) came to power promising loads of freebies. Now voters on the ground are pissed off (plenty of videos where people are not willing to pay electricity bills or public transport fares because Congress said it'll make all of that free but never did so till date). So this hyperbole on BJP being "evil" is largely overblown and it is quite persistent in the Hacker News circles. Ultimately the voter decides based on whether the Party in power delivers or not. BJP has been doing great work on the infrastructure/development front as well as attracting investment. That is visible on the ground. What BJP is lacking severely is in State level leadership/politics which needs to be fixed. Congress on the other hand has given up its National ambitions and pursuing weaknesses it sees in BJP's state level politics. This is vibrancy of democracy. Nothing to feel "bleak" about unless you are drowning yourself in anti-India Western media reports and thinking that is the truth. Maybe you need to ask yourself if you are also part of a misinformation bubble yourself without even realizing it?
  - dagmx 3y ago
    I absolutely hate the way fellow Indians will just try and deflect negative stories about India as western propaganda. You do a disservice to your country by following that tired playbook. Did you ever stop to consider that I am actually well informed and genuinely disappointed with my country. Criticism of the country and party doesn’t mean I’m simply misinformed. I was critical of things when I lived there, I consume my news directly from Indian news sites. Maybe you need to ask yourself why you feel the need to assume it’s western propaganda?

kalam_throw 3y ago

[flagged]

dagmx 3y ago
While those criticisms are true, and I won’t dispute it, he was also a huge symbol for many to actually trust in science and push the country forward. Sometimes what the symbol represents is more important than the contents itself

codegeek 3y ago

For non Indians, NRI = Non Resident Indian i.e. an Indian who lives outside India. In case someone wondered. It is easy to shit on the party in office which is BJP right now but show me a country that can have hundreds of languages, all religions and still survive for centuries as one country. Europe couldn't do it. They broke into EU (for better or worse). There are flaws but India is a complex country of various cultures and you have to understand the nuances. Congress party ruled India for decades after Independence in 1947 and all they could do was to keep India as a 3rd world country while other similar countries progressed economically. Fun fact: Until the early 1980s, India and China were same econonically when COngress ruled India for decades. And talk about authoritarianism ? Who was the one who declared emergency in 1974 and suspended all "civil rights". That was Indira Gandhi from Congress, the so called "secular" party. My point is that there is no saint and people in india like BJP because they are at least doing some work in various areas including infrastructure, economy and areas that have been neglected for decades. So yea, people wanted change and they got change with Modi as a strong leader. Source: Also an NRI who is a naturalized US Citizen and I see a lot of positives among all the negatives that Media loves to portray.

dagmx 3y ago
All I see is a lot of whataboutism to justify some truly heinous actions that have been committed in the past several years. Yeah, Indira Gandhi wasn’t great either. Congress has its flaws. None of that justifies the actions of today. Yes, the BJP has done some good things, but that’s true of many heinous authoritarians in the past as well. No number of good things simply wash their hands of the bad stuff along the way.
- sremani 3y ago
  The right word would be 'Abuse of power', if every center-right politician is labeled Authoritarian -- it will become a meaningless word.
throwaway384629 3y ago
Is "Congress party also bad!" still a primary defence of Mr. Modi who is in power for about 10 years now? I think NRIs are praising Modi because he is helping with the fall of Rupee as compared to other currencies so NRIs get maximum return when they send home USD. Will you be able to share some examples of "at least doing some work in various areas"? 1. I see BJP government as expert in data manipulator and creating smoke screens through their network of social media cell and mainstream TV channels. [1] 2. As per Govt data, over 80 crore people in India currently depend upon government for free food. [2] 3. Modi government manipulated the GDP calculation method to show higher GDP growth. [3] 4. Modi government changed the calculation method to measure the length of highways. Going by lane km, the total length of highways constructed during 2017-18 fiscal comes to 34,378 km as against 9829 km if counted linearly. [4] [1] https://zeenews.india.com/india/get-maths-lessons-bjp-faces-twitter-backlash-over-confusing-graphic-on-petrol-diesel-prices-2140211.html https://zeenews.india.com/india/get-maths-lessons-bjp-faces-... [2] https://www.livemint.com/news/india/over-80-crore-people-to-get-free-ration-for-one-year-11671855017328.html https://www.livemint.com/news/india/over-80-crore-people-to-... [3] https://scroll.in/article/954986/the-daily-fix-is-modi-government-fudging-the-data-to-show-gdp-growth-above-5 https://scroll.in/article/954986/the-daily-fix-is-modi-gover... [4] https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/now-new-concept-to-measure-length-of-highways-from-april-1/story-Q44qGgFzl4DsAPv5OIG0YI_amp.html https://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/now-new-concept-to...

neel8986 3y ago

We are looking at a ruling government who uses AI to demean olympic winning athlete to protect a serial molester. Somehow even after all this heinous acts I can see bunch of so called educated techies defending that ruling class. Is the hate for "other" religion so strong?

primitivesuave 3y ago

I'm an NRI/US citizen, have worked/traveled in the country extensively, and have shared my thoughts on HN many times regarding my country of origin. There is a prevalent "Indian apologist" mentality both inside and outside the country, which applauds anyone spinning the "happy people living with less" or "beautiful ancient culture" montage and shouting down anyone trying to put the preponderance of societal problems into perspective.

shuklaritam 3y ago
No it’s just the Indian voter telling the West/white guy to shut up and mind one’s own business. He knows problems exist and have always existed but they are being magnified more to demean the leadership that is trying to solve more problems per unit time. Regime change is what the West excels at.

testHNac 3y ago

Regarding human rights abuses if you live in the USA I wonder what makes it better. People are crying all over every conceivable media about how racial, sexual, financial discrimination is taking place. Millionaire celebrities are 'Victims' of a variety of abuse - Racial, Sexual etc etc People getting randomly shot in a shootout every other day. Stores can't stay open due to getting robbed as it's 'legally' allowed. Kids can't pay loans for college, people are barely living thanks to shtty minimum wage. Seems like it's common for people to sh*t on the roads in San Francisco. Kids education becoming sub standard thanks to politicians. Most of the West seems to be heading in the same direction. Since you see are obviously comfortable in that environment. Please don't come back. You can remain heartbroken in the West.