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If we have the technological capability of giving animals enhanced cognitive capabilities—and we do not give it to them—that is an interesting moral choice. Wor
by dr_dshiv 3y ago
If we have the technological capability of giving animals enhanced cognitive capabilities—and we do not give it to them—that is an interesting moral choice. Worth a thought.
- throwaway_5753 3y agoDo we? What would that look like? Edit: missed the "if". Assuming you put that there because we currently do not have this tech. Speculatively: like most society wide moral choices, it'd probably be made in such a way as to serve the short term interests of whoever had the power to enact the policy. Alternatively: Would octopus uplift increase the quarterly profits? If so, say hello to your new eight-legged neighbors.
- frabcus 3y agoNeuralink for cephalopods.
- Escapado 3y agoPlease no. Make my dog smarter so she can use the toilet or not roll in poop, great. But I don’t want to be attacked by Cthulus spawn at night.
- dr_dshiv 3y agoGenetically engineered octopi could be developed to grow hard little nubs on their tentacles so they were capable of giving massage therapy. Quarterly profits indeed! But then, perhaps they would learn to give each other nub rubs and then we’d have this runaway hedonic biological phenomena underseas. My god.
- codetrotter 3y agoThen again perhaps giving them enhanced cognitive capabilities would only serve to make existence worse for them? In which case, giving them enhanced cognitive capabilities would be morally worse than leaving them as is.
- wizofaus 3y agoThey're already considered to be gloomy...
- ryanschneider 3y agoI had a short story idea where explorers come across a planet full of ancient ruins and gentle unintelligent beasts. It turns out that to survive the great filter the sentient life on the planet deprogrammed themselves of all sentience and now the explorers need to decide if they should use the same tech on their own civilization or not. Kind of your moral question but in reverse.
- glenstein 3y agoThat's a fascinating one. May I ask the nature of the great filter in this scenario? I understand the "great filter" can be a variety of different things, such as global warming, discovery and use of nuclear capabilities, or various other existential threats, and different "filters" could require different workarounds.
- dmbche 3y agoBlindsight, by Peter Watts (free to read), is a very interesting read if that's your cup of tea (give it until they reach Big Ben). The book explore how counciousness can present itself. I don't want to spoil it - give it a read!
- rektide 3y agoHaving to grapple with existential questions, with meaningfulness has it's downsides but being a meaningless creature seems unideal. To me. Becoming sentient on an already developed industrialized world seems like it would be awful, though . I like to think there are many paths where a species could be welcomed & supported well, but it's hard to imagine that happening on our present earth.
- TheOtherHobbes 3y agoAs humans we probably overestimate our level of sentience, ability to understand meaning, and place in the food chain. We should be careful in case someone decides to try to uplift us.
- proc0 3y agoOctopus first words: "I never asked for this".
- Animatronio 3y agoMaybe the first words will be: "I heard you in the water, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid."
- elzbardico 3y agoahahaha! brilliant!
- bee_rider 3y agoBut imagine if instead it was “Not this again.”
- 77pt77 3y agoI never asked to be born!
- lagniappe 3y agoFlowers For Algernon
- NavinF 3y agohttps://gwern.net/drug-heuristic#loopholes https://gwern.net/drug-heuristic#loopholes
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- ijidak 3y agoNo. That is a violation of the prime directive. :)
- pixelbash 3y agoI don’t wish crippling anxiety on every other species
- ycombinete 3y agoYou just made me think of this comic about “teaching a fish to man”: https://mountainmoonvolcano.tumblr.com/post/66762332783/amp https://mountainmoonvolcano.tumblr.com/post/66762332783/amp
- kwhitefoot 3y agoPresumably this applies to people as well.
- winter_blue 3y agoWe absolutely should at least try to do so. Re-engineer their neural DNA based on human DNA (probably harder than with other animals since their brain is spread out onto their limbs), or simply at least increase the neural counts of various regions, etc. We shouldn’t just leave them as-is after doing so though—we should build a super massive aquarium, and if we actually succeeded in making them smarter — be there to teach them science, math, physics, biology, medicine, computer science, etc.
- afavour 3y ago…why?
- dr_dshiv 3y agoGolden rule
- rhtgrg 3y agoThe platinum rule is generally better. See proc0's reply below. The golden rule is...somewhat narcissistic.
- dr_dshiv 3y agoIn the absence of their ability to consent either way, it’s unclear how to give them what they want. How to, for instance, infer that they don’t want more cognitive power. Octopi have unusually high cognitive powers already—arguably that would suggest an implicit desire?
- rhtgrg 3y agoIn this case consent, should it be possible, would also be a questionable approach. See: the vampire problem. The trouble is, in this situation, how could you possibly make an informed choice? For, after all, you cannot know what it is like to be a vampire until you are one. And if you can’t know what it’s like to be a vampire without becoming one, you can’t compare the character of the lived experience of what it is like to be you, right now, a mere human, to the character of the lived experience of what it would be like to be a vampire. This means that, if you want to make this choice by considering what you want your lived experience to be like in the future, you can’t do it rationally. At least, you can’t do it by weighing the competing options concerning what it would be like and choosing on this basis. And it seems awfully suspect to rely solely on the testimony of your vampire friends to make your choice, because, after all, they aren’t human any more, so their preferences are the ones vampires have, not the ones humans have. -- L.A. Paul
- teddyh 3y agoRoko’s octopus?
- fosk 3y agoIf humanity has the means to do something, after deliberations of various duration, humanity will always choose to do it, whether it’s moral or not. If it will continue doing it, that is a whole different question and we may or may not do that. But the first time? Absolutely.
- jhanschoo 3y agoWe have the technological capability of giving more humans enhanced cognitive ability through better investment in education, but do not, due to other constraints regarding those cases.