6 ms·

This doesn’t seem like it includes stock, which paints an inaccurate picture of compensation.

ttul 3y ago
Not to mention there is no indication of typical statistical metrics that might help one assess the quality of the sample.
0xffff2 3y ago
I know stock grants are ubiquitous in some parts of the tech world, but as someone who only gets paid in cash I have always wondered what percentage of tech jobs actually include significant stock compensation.
- almost_usual 3y ago
  Any public “tech” company should include stock as compensation for SWEs. Startup equity is mostly worthless unless you get lucky.
- JOnAgain 3y ago
  The higher paying jobs skew heavily to stock, especially at FAANG. As you get more sr, stock grants can be 50-80% of comp. So looking at salary alone massively understates comp.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    While that’s true. Only a tiny minority of developers work at the well known public tech companies.
scarface_74 3y ago
People on HN are generally in a bubble and don’t understand the bimodal distribution of compensation in the industry. Most of the 2.7 million developers in the US are working for the military/industrial complex, government, banks, insurance companies, etc and aren’t getting stock. They are starting off making around $70K and top out at $150K. Most aren’t working at “a FAANG” or in the Bay Area. The salaries listed are represented for the vast majority of developers in the US.
- tyingq 3y ago
  There are non-tech companies that give stock options and bonuses to software people. Many in those stodgy/established areas you mention.
  - scarface_74 3y ago
    Stock options are basically worth $0 statistically. But the fact remains that if you look at compensation at most companies outside of the major tech companies, these numbers look realistic. As an anecdote, I use to live in Atlanta and every time I looked for a job, Delta airlines came on my radar. https://www.levels.fyi/companies/delta-air-lines/salaries https://www.levels.fyi/companies/delta-air-lines/salaries This is accurate and in the same range other companies in Atlanta pay like Home Depot, Coke, etc.
    - georgeecollins 3y ago
      I think what you mean to say is that the modal payout of stock options is $0, which could be true (source?). But even something that could typically return 0 is valuable to own.
      - scarface_74 3y ago
        It’s a well known statistic that only one out of ten startups “succeed” and by “success” it just means investors got their money back. It doesn’t mean that employees got anything meaningful. https://www.failory.com/blog/startup-failure-rate https://www.failory.com/blog/startup-failure-rate Stock options are also mostly illiquid and you don’t know the value of what you’re holding. My RSUs in a public company are vested every six months. I know the potential value of those options just by looking at my spreadsheet and I can see the value updated almost real time (the GoogleFinance function). How long have Stripe employees been waiting on their company to go public?
        hgsgm 3y ago
        Do you you think most employees are at brand new startups, or at larger near-liquidity companies?
ryandrake 3y ago
I bet these numbers are total compensation. They are averages across the industry, not "the top comps for the top talent at the top FAANGs". Whenever there is a Tech Salary article, commenters on HN comes out of the woodwork to point out that everyone in tech makes $400K and drives a Tesla to their second home in Tahoe. Everyone seems to know at least somebody's brother's cousin's roommate making $1M/yr at Facebook or whatever. They trot out levels.fyi as if that's the norm across a huge industry. These huge figures are not happening anywhere but a few top companies, or for a few top roles. Most of the tech industry plugs away at ~$100K which is still great and well over the average and median comp for jobs in general in the USA.

ttul 3y ago

Not to mention there is no indication of typical statistical metrics that might help one assess the quality of the sample.

0xffff2 3y ago

I know stock grants are ubiquitous in some parts of the tech world, but as someone who only gets paid in cash I have always wondered what percentage of tech jobs actually include significant stock compensation.

almost_usual 3y ago
Any public “tech” company should include stock as compensation for SWEs. Startup equity is mostly worthless unless you get lucky.
JOnAgain 3y ago
The higher paying jobs skew heavily to stock, especially at FAANG. As you get more sr, stock grants can be 50-80% of comp. So looking at salary alone massively understates comp.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  While that’s true. Only a tiny minority of developers work at the well known public tech companies.

scarface_74 3y ago

People on HN are generally in a bubble and don’t understand the bimodal distribution of compensation in the industry. Most of the 2.7 million developers in the US are working for the military/industrial complex, government, banks, insurance companies, etc and aren’t getting stock. They are starting off making around $70K and top out at $150K. Most aren’t working at “a FAANG” or in the Bay Area. The salaries listed are represented for the vast majority of developers in the US.

tyingq 3y ago
There are non-tech companies that give stock options and bonuses to software people. Many in those stodgy/established areas you mention.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Stock options are basically worth $0 statistically. But the fact remains that if you look at compensation at most companies outside of the major tech companies, these numbers look realistic. As an anecdote, I use to live in Atlanta and every time I looked for a job, Delta airlines came on my radar. https://www.levels.fyi/companies/delta-air-lines/salaries https://www.levels.fyi/companies/delta-air-lines/salaries This is accurate and in the same range other companies in Atlanta pay like Home Depot, Coke, etc.
  - georgeecollins 3y ago
    I think what you mean to say is that the modal payout of stock options is $0, which could be true (source?). But even something that could typically return 0 is valuable to own.
    - scarface_74 3y ago
      It’s a well known statistic that only one out of ten startups “succeed” and by “success” it just means investors got their money back. It doesn’t mean that employees got anything meaningful. https://www.failory.com/blog/startup-failure-rate https://www.failory.com/blog/startup-failure-rate Stock options are also mostly illiquid and you don’t know the value of what you’re holding. My RSUs in a public company are vested every six months. I know the potential value of those options just by looking at my spreadsheet and I can see the value updated almost real time (the GoogleFinance function). How long have Stripe employees been waiting on their company to go public?
      - hgsgm 3y ago
        Do you you think most employees are at brand new startups, or at larger near-liquidity companies?

ryandrake 3y ago

I bet these numbers are total compensation. They are averages across the industry, not "the top comps for the top talent at the top FAANGs". Whenever there is a Tech Salary article, commenters on HN comes out of the woodwork to point out that everyone in tech makes $400K and drives a Tesla to their second home in Tahoe. Everyone seems to know at least somebody's brother's cousin's roommate making $1M/yr at Facebook or whatever. They trot out levels.fyi as if that's the norm across a huge industry. These huge figures are not happening anywhere but a few top companies, or for a few top roles. Most of the tech industry plugs away at ~$100K which is still great and well over the average and median comp for jobs in general in the USA.