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Trump openly asked for help from Russia on national TV. I don’t see how the existence of some degree of Russian collusion is debatable given that it was done in

by api 3y ago

Trump openly asked for help from Russia on national TV. I don’t see how the existence of some degree of Russian collusion is debatable given that it was done in the open. I do agree that there are people who vastly overestimate the extent or effectiveness of whatever Russia did do. Trump won due to general discontent with the status quo coupled with the fact that Hillary Clinton was a politically tone deaf candidate who ran a terrible campaign. If anything Russia did succeeded it’s because it was able to capitalize on this dynamic.

redeeman 3y ago
[flagged]
- vlovich123 3y ago
  Makes a fun sound bite but given the context was he was speaking about a program for people to navigate voter suppression, do you really think he has a secret voter fraud plan and accidentally revealed it like that Politicians speak a lot and I know I myself can mix up words sometimes and I don’t speak nearly enough. > OK, trump wanted the TRUTH to come out, he wanted facts exposed to the american people, that admittedly benefitted him, but still, facts relating to illegalities to his political opponent. That’s just clearly false. > Russia tried to hack Hillary Clinton’s office five hours after Trump called on Moscow to find her deleted emails https://www.vox.com/world/2019/4/19/18507580/mueller-report-trump-russia-obstruction-summary https://www.vox.com/world/2019/4/19/18507580/mueller-report-... So basically Trump solicited a third party to commit a crime on his behalf. As far as I know that makes you an accessory. Also Russia later also hacked the RNC so the lack of release of anything incriminating there leads a reasonable person to conclude I think that they have blackmail info on the RNC that they’re holding back because they have an agreement with the elites in that party. Notice how especially pro-Putin right wing media has been since that time period. The Meuller report is pretty thorough. If you haven’t read it at least find unbiased analysis of what it shows.
  - redeeman 3y ago
    > Russia tried to hack Hillary Clinton’s office five hours after Trump called on Moscow to find her deleted emails Emails that were deleted in a crime, that should have been public record. so while he may have been soliciting a crime (he didnt, and there were never charges, also, if you knew ANYTHING about trump, you knew he joked when he said that. but regardless), he wanted the truth to come out > think that they have blackmail info on the RNC that they’re holding back because they have an agreement with the elites in that party. yeah you think, but you have no evidence, its entirely possible there was nothing there, and we have some evidence to point to that, regardless of how criminal the RNC may have been(and they are for sure every bit as bad as the democrats), in that Trump has talked plenty about how he put great effort to not having any digital copies of important stuff that COULD be hacked, and in addition to that, invest in "cybersecurity"
- pstuart 3y ago
  The fact that you cite has been been shown to be false: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact-check-biden-voter-protection-not/fact-check-clip-of-biden-taken-out-of-context-to-portray-him-as-plotting-a-voter-fraud-scheme-idUSKBN27E2VH https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact-check-biden-voter-pr... From your enthusiasm I'm going to guess you'd not be satisfied with that fact.
  - redeeman 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - pstuart 3y ago
      Joe is gaffe prone, and from the article that I linked to he apparently said the words but misspoke. I voted for Joe and I like the guy but I've definitely got issues with him. He certainly wasn't my first choice. But you appear to be a True Believer and there's no point in furthering this discussion because you mind is made up and that's that.
      - redeeman 3y ago
        no, I also believe he misspoke, but the point was, "we" take trumps jokes at total face value, as to actually believe he asked the russians, where if you watch the video, and know anything about how trump talks, you know he was not really asking them to do that, but making a joke. Something he often does. It may have been a stupid joke to make, all things considered, but it was one nonetheless. If you can suspend blind faith in the media narrative and out-of-context clips, and smear campaigns, and see what the man said, you'd see that too. Trump is a moron for many many reasons, but not what they accuse him of
        pstuart 3y ago
        That's an interesting pivot. You brought it up in the context of it being a confession but now it's not? His ask was actually delivered on shortly after: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-asked-russia-to-find-clintons-emails-on-or-around-the-same-day-russians-targeted-her-accounts https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-asked-russia-to-... Trump had plans to build in Moscow, held unprecedented unsupervised conversations with Putin, etc. I could go on and on, but would you listen or care? Anyway, we're effectively sullying the salient value of the OP.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

by api 3y ago

redeeman 3y ago

[flagged]

vlovich123 3y ago
Makes a fun sound bite but given the context was he was speaking about a program for people to navigate voter suppression, do you really think he has a secret voter fraud plan and accidentally revealed it like that Politicians speak a lot and I know I myself can mix up words sometimes and I don’t speak nearly enough. > OK, trump wanted the TRUTH to come out, he wanted facts exposed to the american people, that admittedly benefitted him, but still, facts relating to illegalities to his political opponent. That’s just clearly false. > Russia tried to hack Hillary Clinton’s office five hours after Trump called on Moscow to find her deleted emails https://www.vox.com/world/2019/4/19/18507580/mueller-report-trump-russia-obstruction-summary https://www.vox.com/world/2019/4/19/18507580/mueller-report-... So basically Trump solicited a third party to commit a crime on his behalf. As far as I know that makes you an accessory. Also Russia later also hacked the RNC so the lack of release of anything incriminating there leads a reasonable person to conclude I think that they have blackmail info on the RNC that they’re holding back because they have an agreement with the elites in that party. Notice how especially pro-Putin right wing media has been since that time period. The Meuller report is pretty thorough. If you haven’t read it at least find unbiased analysis of what it shows.
- redeeman 3y ago
  > Russia tried to hack Hillary Clinton’s office five hours after Trump called on Moscow to find her deleted emails Emails that were deleted in a crime, that should have been public record. so while he may have been soliciting a crime (he didnt, and there were never charges, also, if you knew ANYTHING about trump, you knew he joked when he said that. but regardless), he wanted the truth to come out > think that they have blackmail info on the RNC that they’re holding back because they have an agreement with the elites in that party. yeah you think, but you have no evidence, its entirely possible there was nothing there, and we have some evidence to point to that, regardless of how criminal the RNC may have been(and they are for sure every bit as bad as the democrats), in that Trump has talked plenty about how he put great effort to not having any digital copies of important stuff that COULD be hacked, and in addition to that, invest in "cybersecurity"
pstuart 3y ago
The fact that you cite has been been shown to be false: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact-check-biden-voter-protection-not/fact-check-clip-of-biden-taken-out-of-context-to-portray-him-as-plotting-a-voter-fraud-scheme-idUSKBN27E2VH https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-fact-check-biden-voter-pr... From your enthusiasm I'm going to guess you'd not be satisfied with that fact.
- redeeman 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - pstuart 3y ago
    Joe is gaffe prone, and from the article that I linked to he apparently said the words but misspoke. I voted for Joe and I like the guy but I've definitely got issues with him. He certainly wasn't my first choice. But you appear to be a True Believer and there's no point in furthering this discussion because you mind is made up and that's that.
    - redeeman 3y ago
      no, I also believe he misspoke, but the point was, "we" take trumps jokes at total face value, as to actually believe he asked the russians, where if you watch the video, and know anything about how trump talks, you know he was not really asking them to do that, but making a joke. Something he often does. It may have been a stupid joke to make, all things considered, but it was one nonetheless. If you can suspend blind faith in the media narrative and out-of-context clips, and smear campaigns, and see what the man said, you'd see that too. Trump is a moron for many many reasons, but not what they accuse him of
      - pstuart 3y ago
        That's an interesting pivot. You brought it up in the context of it being a confession but now it's not? His ask was actually delivered on shortly after: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-asked-russia-to-find-clintons-emails-on-or-around-the-same-day-russians-targeted-her-accounts https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-asked-russia-to-... Trump had plans to build in Moscow, held unprecedented unsupervised conversations with Putin, etc. I could go on and on, but would you listen or care? Anyway, we're effectively sullying the salient value of the OP.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]