2 ms·

I could not disagree more. In the countries where the bureacracy is considered "efficient", it's because in that time and place the best jobs for the most talen

I could not disagree more. In the countries where the bureacracy is considered "efficient", it's because in that time and place the best jobs for the most talented were in the government. In the US context that was 1930 to 1970, when the Great Depression, WWII, Korean War, Vietnam, and the aftermath made stable government employment attractive. Once the situation tilts back to the private sector, which IMO is the natural state of things, it starts to get corrupted. My thesis is that over the longterm you must align incentives. In certain times in certain places you can avoid this. But the arc of the moral universe bends towards self interest.

jltsiren 3y ago
A concrete example: In many countries, most taxpayers don't have to file taxes. Those countries have taken many steps over the decades to make the tax bureaucracy more efficient. The US could try to do the same, but the existing institutions make it difficult. Another example: Many countries have a system of administrative courts. If someone challenges a decision made by a public official, the case goes there. The process is reasonably cost-effective and predictable, as the judge usually considers only whether the decision was made according to the correct processes. Determining whether the decision was good is left to elected representatives. If a similar case goes to a civil court, the process tends to be more expensive and less predictable, as the judge is more likely to consider the substance of the argument.
- monero-xmr 3y ago
  I am a "tax return should fit on a postcard" type of guy so we have no argument there. However I don't think you will find many in the center or right political axis that thinks we don't want to streamline tax filing and make the whole thing more efficient. The reason in the US that things aren't easier is endless lobbying. Literally every sector that makes a few million bucks hires a state lobbyist to ensure no one local fucks them.
  - jltsiren 3y ago
    The lobbying problem is worse than usual in the US, because you chose to make corporate lobbying constitutionally protected speech. That made proper regulation of it impossible. And then it's difficult to change the decision, because it was made by the Supreme Court, which has somehow assumed a significant legislative role. In principle, it would be possible to change the Constitution, but that is also more difficult in the US than in most other countries. Structural issues like these are a major reason for the inefficiency of American bureaucracy. You chose to shape your society in a certain way, and these are some of the consequences.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  You don’t have to do tax returns in China. But you have to fill out a form with some numbers from your pay check stubs as HR tells you. It’s absolutely bizarre, it doesn’t change what taxes you pay at all, but you are in trouble if you don’t file the form (which is in Chinese anyways and I’ve never read through).
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    Wouldn’t it seem weird if the official government form wasn’t in the official government language?
    - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
      Oh no arguments about that, it was a disclaimer that I had no idea what this form really was for. It was called a “self reporting tax form” but was pretty systematic in how it was filled out. Our HR just gave us a PowerPoint on what numbers to put where. So it could have been a language gap thing that the useless paperwork was actual useful for some reason that I would only know if I could read Chinese.
  - the_third_wave 3y ago
    > which is in Chinese anyways ...which is not a problem any more since the advent of OCR and translation services... > and I’ve never read through Maybe you should? Just point a camera at the thing and run it through a translator.

jltsiren 3y ago

A concrete example: In many countries, most taxpayers don't have to file taxes. Those countries have taken many steps over the decades to make the tax bureaucracy more efficient. The US could try to do the same, but the existing institutions make it difficult. Another example: Many countries have a system of administrative courts. If someone challenges a decision made by a public official, the case goes there. The process is reasonably cost-effective and predictable, as the judge usually considers only whether the decision was made according to the correct processes. Determining whether the decision was good is left to elected representatives. If a similar case goes to a civil court, the process tends to be more expensive and less predictable, as the judge is more likely to consider the substance of the argument.

monero-xmr 3y ago
I am a "tax return should fit on a postcard" type of guy so we have no argument there. However I don't think you will find many in the center or right political axis that thinks we don't want to streamline tax filing and make the whole thing more efficient. The reason in the US that things aren't easier is endless lobbying. Literally every sector that makes a few million bucks hires a state lobbyist to ensure no one local fucks them.
- jltsiren 3y ago
  The lobbying problem is worse than usual in the US, because you chose to make corporate lobbying constitutionally protected speech. That made proper regulation of it impossible. And then it's difficult to change the decision, because it was made by the Supreme Court, which has somehow assumed a significant legislative role. In principle, it would be possible to change the Constitution, but that is also more difficult in the US than in most other countries. Structural issues like these are a major reason for the inefficiency of American bureaucracy. You chose to shape your society in a certain way, and these are some of the consequences.
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
You don’t have to do tax returns in China. But you have to fill out a form with some numbers from your pay check stubs as HR tells you. It’s absolutely bizarre, it doesn’t change what taxes you pay at all, but you are in trouble if you don’t file the form (which is in Chinese anyways and I’ve never read through).
- sokoloff 3y ago
  Wouldn’t it seem weird if the official government form wasn’t in the official government language?
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    Oh no arguments about that, it was a disclaimer that I had no idea what this form really was for. It was called a “self reporting tax form” but was pretty systematic in how it was filled out. Our HR just gave us a PowerPoint on what numbers to put where. So it could have been a language gap thing that the useless paperwork was actual useful for some reason that I would only know if I could read Chinese.
- the_third_wave 3y ago
  > which is in Chinese anyways ...which is not a problem any more since the advent of OCR and translation services... > and I’ve never read through Maybe you should? Just point a camera at the thing and run it through a translator.