4 ms·

They're a group of right-wing policy consultancy grifters, of course they'd complain.

by slater 3y ago

proc0 3y ago
Right-wing in SF? Sounds like what they'd say given how far left the entire city is.
- jasonwatkinspdx 3y ago
  No, this place is a fake think tank that pretends to be neutral but is in fact an arm of ALEC and largely funded by the Koch's: https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/California_Policy_Center https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/California_Policy_Cent... Don't fall for easy bullshit and let it lead you to making "dunk" comments that don't actually engage the problems and instead act as thought ending cliches. That's their entire goal.
  - proc0 3y ago
    Sounds like conspiracy theories. No dunking, just saying. SF is far left just like Oakland and they both seem to have unique problems other cities aren't experiencing. I could be wrong, but so far I've predicted the downturn and I think it won't get any better unless people start holding the decision-makers accountable (which sounds like it's not going to happen).
    - pstuart 3y ago
      So the problem is that SF is liberal? That caused the homeless to be sent from around the country? It's expensive there because a lot of people want to live there (ye olde supply demand thang, ya know?), and the more affluent squeeze out the poor folk. A lot of that affluence seems to be all of us lucky tech people, so in a sense we're part of the problem (not blaming, just noting). There is corruption and incompetence too but that seems to exist lots of other places too.
      - proc0 3y ago
        Isn't it beyond liberal? I would almost say it's so left it's not even liberal anymore, but that's a different matter. i think for sure it is a factor because the people who make decisions in the city, who are elected to manage the city, are probably not afraid of losing their jobs or the consequences of the decisions they make. There is so little pushback they can just run experiment after experiment with zero repercussions. I don't know what the solution is but I sure know that I don't hire the same company over and over if they keep failing at solving a problem I'm paying them for. Granted, corruption is a big part of it (i.e. public services wasting tax payer money instead of solving the problem), and dealing with that would be a step in the right direction.
        pstuart 3y ago
        Are you familiar with the Overton Window? It's shifted hard to the right. So if you want to say: is San Francisco tolerant of the LGBQT+ community? Absolutely, with flying rainbow flag colors. But that's the key driver in the culture wars, and it has nothing to do with the business of running a government (other than minimizing government persecution of that community. All of these issues could and should be dissected, analyzed, and addressed. But blaming it on the boogeyman of "DemonRats are destroying everything" is tiresome. You state "experiment after experiment" but don't give any examples. I'd be happy to discuss them individually if you'd like. p.s.: My mother was one of those awful homeless people littering the streets of SF in her final years. She migrated from the burbs so she wasn't the city's fault. How she got there is the complicated issue of many of them and never gets properly discussed or addressed. That's my skin in the game of this story.
        kortilla 3y ago
        > Are you familiar with the Overton Window? It's shifted hard to the right. This is incorrect. It may have widened in both directions, but it absolutely did not shift to the right. Transgender support from mainstream corporations (Target, Budweiser, etc) would have been completely unthinkable 10 years ago. That’s just one example of many. What has happened is that the Overton window is broken because people don’t even engage with “the other side” anymore. So we just end up with both sides discussing things with impunity that were previously off-topic and still are for the other side.
    - jasonwatkinspdx 3y ago
      They're most severe in SF but all major west coast cities are experiencing the same issues. Saying it's a result of "liberalism" is simply empty reflexive rhetoric. What's happening is a complex set of intersecting problems. If you'd like to talk about those I'm interested. If you just want to punch at what you see as "far left" I am not inclined to waste my time.
  - HyperSane 3y ago
    Only one Koch left.
    - jasonwatkinspdx 3y ago
      Yeah, I keep forgetting that, somewhat hilariously as I'm at radius 2 to the family. My dad's best friend worked for Koch industries and described his job as "keeping the brothers from killing each other." They are extremely unpleasant people based on all the stories I heard growing up.
      - HyperSane 3y ago
        You would have to be utter bastards to dedicate your life to the evil shit the Koch's did.
  - nonethewiser 3y ago
    San Francisco? Neutral? Right?
rhaway84773 3y ago
They are a right wing group of policy grifters and they would have been making similar arguments even if SF was running billion dollar surpluses and had 0 homeless, no crime, etc. in fact, then and their likes have indeed been making similar arguments for decades. The problem is that their arguments are now getting purchase because SF is indeed facing problems. Since this grift site doesn’t actually prescribe any solutions it’s hard to say how right or wrong they are, but there’s definitely a need for SF, and more broadly expensive cities across the U.S., to take a hard look at how they’re operating. The fact that we are allowing the US’s great cities to crumble because people are forced to move to suburbs in the middle of the desert since housing is so expensive is an absolute tragedy for everyone.

They're a group of right-wing policy consultancy grifters, of course they'd complain.

by slater 3y ago

They're a group of right-wing policy consultancy grifters, of course they'd complain.

proc0 3y ago

Right-wing in SF? Sounds like what they'd say given how far left the entire city is.

jasonwatkinspdx 3y ago
No, this place is a fake think tank that pretends to be neutral but is in fact an arm of ALEC and largely funded by the Koch's: https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/California_Policy_Center https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/California_Policy_Cent... Don't fall for easy bullshit and let it lead you to making "dunk" comments that don't actually engage the problems and instead act as thought ending cliches. That's their entire goal.
- proc0 3y ago
  Sounds like conspiracy theories. No dunking, just saying. SF is far left just like Oakland and they both seem to have unique problems other cities aren't experiencing. I could be wrong, but so far I've predicted the downturn and I think it won't get any better unless people start holding the decision-makers accountable (which sounds like it's not going to happen).
  - pstuart 3y ago
    So the problem is that SF is liberal? That caused the homeless to be sent from around the country? It's expensive there because a lot of people want to live there (ye olde supply demand thang, ya know?), and the more affluent squeeze out the poor folk. A lot of that affluence seems to be all of us lucky tech people, so in a sense we're part of the problem (not blaming, just noting). There is corruption and incompetence too but that seems to exist lots of other places too.
    - proc0 3y ago
      Isn't it beyond liberal? I would almost say it's so left it's not even liberal anymore, but that's a different matter. i think for sure it is a factor because the people who make decisions in the city, who are elected to manage the city, are probably not afraid of losing their jobs or the consequences of the decisions they make. There is so little pushback they can just run experiment after experiment with zero repercussions. I don't know what the solution is but I sure know that I don't hire the same company over and over if they keep failing at solving a problem I'm paying them for. Granted, corruption is a big part of it (i.e. public services wasting tax payer money instead of solving the problem), and dealing with that would be a step in the right direction.
      - pstuart 3y ago
        Are you familiar with the Overton Window? It's shifted hard to the right. So if you want to say: is San Francisco tolerant of the LGBQT+ community? Absolutely, with flying rainbow flag colors. But that's the key driver in the culture wars, and it has nothing to do with the business of running a government (other than minimizing government persecution of that community. All of these issues could and should be dissected, analyzed, and addressed. But blaming it on the boogeyman of "DemonRats are destroying everything" is tiresome. You state "experiment after experiment" but don't give any examples. I'd be happy to discuss them individually if you'd like. p.s.: My mother was one of those awful homeless people littering the streets of SF in her final years. She migrated from the burbs so she wasn't the city's fault. How she got there is the complicated issue of many of them and never gets properly discussed or addressed. That's my skin in the game of this story.
        kortilla 3y ago
        > Are you familiar with the Overton Window? It's shifted hard to the right. This is incorrect. It may have widened in both directions, but it absolutely did not shift to the right. Transgender support from mainstream corporations (Target, Budweiser, etc) would have been completely unthinkable 10 years ago. That’s just one example of many. What has happened is that the Overton window is broken because people don’t even engage with “the other side” anymore. So we just end up with both sides discussing things with impunity that were previously off-topic and still are for the other side.
  - jasonwatkinspdx 3y ago
    They're most severe in SF but all major west coast cities are experiencing the same issues. Saying it's a result of "liberalism" is simply empty reflexive rhetoric. What's happening is a complex set of intersecting problems. If you'd like to talk about those I'm interested. If you just want to punch at what you see as "far left" I am not inclined to waste my time.
- HyperSane 3y ago
  Only one Koch left.
  - jasonwatkinspdx 3y ago
    Yeah, I keep forgetting that, somewhat hilariously as I'm at radius 2 to the family. My dad's best friend worked for Koch industries and described his job as "keeping the brothers from killing each other." They are extremely unpleasant people based on all the stories I heard growing up.
    - HyperSane 3y ago
      You would have to be utter bastards to dedicate your life to the evil shit the Koch's did.
- nonethewiser 3y ago
  San Francisco? Neutral? Right?

rhaway84773 3y ago

They are a right wing group of policy grifters and they would have been making similar arguments even if SF was running billion dollar surpluses and had 0 homeless, no crime, etc. in fact, then and their likes have indeed been making similar arguments for decades. The problem is that their arguments are now getting purchase because SF is indeed facing problems. Since this grift site doesn’t actually prescribe any solutions it’s hard to say how right or wrong they are, but there’s definitely a need for SF, and more broadly expensive cities across the U.S., to take a hard look at how they’re operating. The fact that we are allowing the US’s great cities to crumble because people are forced to move to suburbs in the middle of the desert since housing is so expensive is an absolute tragedy for everyone.