5 ms·

The time for copyright has long passed anyway. It's not clear to me that any infringement actually takes place in training AI, and I think we've all seen the ar

The time for copyright has long passed anyway. It's not clear to me that any infringement actually takes place in training AI, and I think we've all seen the arguments. But even if it did, it just means that "infringement" is a stupid construct that needs to be done away with. Intellectual property as a whole is a failed experiment that doesn't actually spur creation, which the the argued point for why the rest of us give up natural rights. FWIW, the author appears to be the founder or former founder of Licensy - you can guess what it's about, so I wouldn't take the article as a neutral legal opinion anyway.

sokoloff 3y ago
How many blockbuster movies do you expect would be created if copyright infringement were "done away with"? How many songs would be created? Books authored? Copyright's current state might be excessive, but doing away with it entirely is almost surely not the answer.
- refulgentis 3y ago
  Motte and Bailey, broad claim is all copyright is destroyed and no production will be done, narrow claim is it’s disruptive economically that the AI gets to look at webpages.
- version_five 3y ago
  I don't belive the richness of culture would diminish in any way, and I can see a case that it would increase. Imagine that all the effort that goes to milking tired movie and song copyrights to extract value went into new stuff. Things might look slightly different, but I don't see that they could be worse.
  - balderdash 3y ago
    In order for your argument to be true - you either believe that: a) a copyright holder’s ability to monetize their work would not be impacted, or b) that all the people that currently make their living creating copyrighted works, would continue to invest their time and money to produce their works regardless of their ability to be compensated I personally find both premises to be unsupportable.
    - version_five 3y ago
      You made up two things I didn't say and then disagreed with them? That's an interesting discussion style.
      - jlawson 3y ago
        So you do believe that creators' ability to monetize would be impacted, and they won't be investing as much time/money into their creations. But you also believe that the richness of culture would not diminish in any way. I wish you'd explain what you think would happen. (I can say that if copyright stopped existing my business would also immediately stop existing and I'd have to find a new career or a new country).
      - balderdash 3y ago
        Well certain premises must be true to support the argument that you put forth. Those are the principal ones I could come up with, but by all means enlighten us as to the mechanism that will make creators want to create more rather than less under no copyright?
    - worik 3y ago
      > that all the people that currently make their living creating copyrighted works, Who are you talking about? What is their living like? From what I can see writer's and musicians mostly live in poverty unless they are hobbyists. Like me. I produce audio art (eg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jrAAPbg81ks https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jrAAPbg81ks). No thought, ever, to copyright.
      - balderdash 3y ago
        Umm the millions of people that are employed by/earn their living from video game companies, movie and tv, magazines and newspapers, publishing houses, and musing labels. Not to mention all the royalties paid to individual artists etc. (I.e. ~$36b in US book sales, assume a ~15% royalty is ~$6b paid to creators). And yes plenty of people try unsuccessfully to make a career from their art or just do it for fun as a hobby.
- 8bitsrule 3y ago
  One seldom-mentioned aspect of copyright - for better or worse - is that it helps to keep old works (especially popular ones) off the shelves. If anyone could distribute old works, at lower or no cost, they'd be strong competition for new works (with living creators, publishing staff, and servers to pay). Agreed that 'current state' is excessive. It's a shame that long out-of-print works (which are direct evidence of little or no commercial value to authors/publishers) have not become freely available since digitization came along. (Paying $35 for a digital copy of an ancient, but important science paper, for example.) OOP-status is pretty damned easy to verify today.
- worik 3y ago
  > How many blockbuster movies do you expect would be created if copyright infringement were "done away with"? Zero What a good idea! Some more space for new art, rather than the warmed up recycled shirt we get now

sokoloff 3y ago

How many blockbuster movies do you expect would be created if copyright infringement were "done away with"? How many songs would be created? Books authored? Copyright's current state might be excessive, but doing away with it entirely is almost surely not the answer.

refulgentis 3y ago
Motte and Bailey, broad claim is all copyright is destroyed and no production will be done, narrow claim is it’s disruptive economically that the AI gets to look at webpages.
version_five 3y ago
I don't belive the richness of culture would diminish in any way, and I can see a case that it would increase. Imagine that all the effort that goes to milking tired movie and song copyrights to extract value went into new stuff. Things might look slightly different, but I don't see that they could be worse.
- balderdash 3y ago
  In order for your argument to be true - you either believe that: a) a copyright holder’s ability to monetize their work would not be impacted, or b) that all the people that currently make their living creating copyrighted works, would continue to invest their time and money to produce their works regardless of their ability to be compensated I personally find both premises to be unsupportable.
  - version_five 3y ago
    You made up two things I didn't say and then disagreed with them? That's an interesting discussion style.
    - jlawson 3y ago
      So you do believe that creators' ability to monetize would be impacted, and they won't be investing as much time/money into their creations. But you also believe that the richness of culture would not diminish in any way. I wish you'd explain what you think would happen. (I can say that if copyright stopped existing my business would also immediately stop existing and I'd have to find a new career or a new country).
    - balderdash 3y ago
      Well certain premises must be true to support the argument that you put forth. Those are the principal ones I could come up with, but by all means enlighten us as to the mechanism that will make creators want to create more rather than less under no copyright?
  - worik 3y ago
    > that all the people that currently make their living creating copyrighted works, Who are you talking about? What is their living like? From what I can see writer's and musicians mostly live in poverty unless they are hobbyists. Like me. I produce audio art (eg https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jrAAPbg81ks https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jrAAPbg81ks). No thought, ever, to copyright.
    - balderdash 3y ago
      Umm the millions of people that are employed by/earn their living from video game companies, movie and tv, magazines and newspapers, publishing houses, and musing labels. Not to mention all the royalties paid to individual artists etc. (I.e. ~$36b in US book sales, assume a ~15% royalty is ~$6b paid to creators). And yes plenty of people try unsuccessfully to make a career from their art or just do it for fun as a hobby.
8bitsrule 3y ago
One seldom-mentioned aspect of copyright - for better or worse - is that it helps to keep old works (especially popular ones) off the shelves. If anyone could distribute old works, at lower or no cost, they'd be strong competition for new works (with living creators, publishing staff, and servers to pay). Agreed that 'current state' is excessive. It's a shame that long out-of-print works (which are direct evidence of little or no commercial value to authors/publishers) have not become freely available since digitization came along. (Paying $35 for a digital copy of an ancient, but important science paper, for example.) OOP-status is pretty damned easy to verify today.
worik 3y ago
> How many blockbuster movies do you expect would be created if copyright infringement were "done away with"? Zero What a good idea! Some more space for new art, rather than the warmed up recycled shirt we get now