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> only affects opt-in testers That's a falsehood. Kernel releases on kernel.org are _not_ considered "unstable". That's a myth open source aficionados have to

> only affects opt-in testers That's a falsehood. Kernel releases on kernel.org are _not_ considered "unstable". That's a myth open source aficionados have to drop ASAP.

mroche 3y ago
The "opt-in testers" is referring to the context of this Bugzilla report against Fedora. The only Fedora users who will have the 6.3 kernel series on their systems are those who willingly and intentionally enable the updates-testing repository. It is not a reference to the Linux ecosystem at large. Putting that aside... this probably should have been caught by upstream before releasing, though. I find it a bit hard to believe no kernel developer, particularly those working on the storage subsystems, don't have some kind of system using XFS within a hardware or software RAID configuration.
- itvision 3y ago
  > The only Fedora users who will have the 6.3 kernel series on their systems are those who willingly and intentionally enable the updates-testing repository. 1. People compile released kernels found on kernel.org. I do. 2. Multiple distros release kernel.org kernel releases quite fast including Arch and Gentoo. There's also a Ubuntu PPA with the mainline kernel many people, who I personally know, use. 3. Where's the line between "stable" and unstable/beta/whatever? Who draws it? What about "stable" LTS kernel regressions which have been aplenty so far? Also please refer to this comment https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoronix-articles/1389353-those-using-the-xfs-file-system-will-want-to-avoid-linux-6-3-for-now?p=1389359#post1389359 https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoron... because this argument that "LTS or distro kernels are stable" has never been true. It's been nothing but a very bad myth. > a hardware or software RAID configuration. Again, there's a person without raid in the comments. Could you please drop it and make it look like those people are somehow extremely unlucky and everyone else is safe?
  - e12e 3y ago
    > this argument that "LTS or distro kernels are stable" has never been true. It's been nothing but a very bad myth. It might have some mythical aspects, but if 10 000 people have run a certain kernel/FS combination without issue for a few months - you can reasonably expect that particular set of binary artifacts to work well if you install/run them in the same way. Now, if you change the sources, adjust the configs and compile flags - you can be less certain everything will work. That doesn't mean kernel.org kernels are unstable - it just means change drives risk (often justifiable risk).
  - mroche 3y ago
    > 1. People compile released kernels found on kernel.org. I do. 2. Multiple distros release kernel.org kernel releases quite fast including Arch and Gentoo. There's also a Ubuntu PPA with the mainline kernel many people, who I personally know, use. To repeat myself, the is the _Red Hat Bugzilla bug tracker for Fedora_. While what you say is true, that's outside the context of what the OP and I are saying, and the statement in the ticket. As seen in the ticket, users of other distros and kernel configs have made comments reporting their experience with the 6.3 series, but that is besides the point I was making above. Anyone performing their own builds (even on Fedora) are more than welcome to contribute and test, but that's outside the bounds of the Fedora QA process. > Again, there's a person without raid in the comments. Could you please drop it and make it look like those people are somehow extremely unlucky and everyone else is safe? I'm not the original thread starter, but I read through the ticket earlier and unless I misinterpreted one of the comments or missed something in the wall of text that is RHBZ, I didn't see a RAID-less reporter.
    - rincebrain 3y ago
      > I didn't see a RAID-less reporter. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2208553#c24 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2208553#c24 says "no hardware RAID", which was the original context of the claims about RAID versus no RAID. Also reportedly https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/fs/xfs/libxfs/xfs_bmap.c?id=9419092fb2630c30e4ffeb9ef61007ef0c61827a https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/lin... fixes it, with the hypothesis being sometimes instead of livelocking, they return an incorrect mapping to be written out.
e12e 3y ago
I'm sorry - in the context of rhel (ed: Fedora) - this affects opt-in testers. Tbh, I'd say anyone compiling their kernel off kernel.org releases, also do opt-in testing in a certain sense (you're more likely to end up with a concrete "sum" of compiled/configured kernel/user space that is unique to your setup). Contrast this with a (stable) distro release, where you can at least hope what you get has been tested (like by the people reporting this bug). I certainly agree that any stable kernel org release is expected to work - but also somewhat expected to receive fixes for as-yet unknown bugs (hence point releases). TFA is a bug report against rhel (Ed: Fedora )- i can't find anything (recent) on lkml?
ilyt 3y ago
Waht "myth" ? Most people just dont compile kernel directly from there but instead takes it from distro

> only affects opt-in testers That's a falsehood. Kernel releases on kernel.org are _not_ considered "unstable". That's a myth open source aficionados have to drop ASAP.

mroche 3y ago

The "opt-in testers" is referring to the context of this Bugzilla report against Fedora. The only Fedora users who will have the 6.3 kernel series on their systems are those who willingly and intentionally enable the updates-testing repository. It is not a reference to the Linux ecosystem at large. Putting that aside... this probably should have been caught by upstream before releasing, though. I find it a bit hard to believe no kernel developer, particularly those working on the storage subsystems, don't have some kind of system using XFS within a hardware or software RAID configuration.

itvision 3y ago
> The only Fedora users who will have the 6.3 kernel series on their systems are those who willingly and intentionally enable the updates-testing repository. 1. People compile released kernels found on kernel.org. I do. 2. Multiple distros release kernel.org kernel releases quite fast including Arch and Gentoo. There's also a Ubuntu PPA with the mainline kernel many people, who I personally know, use. 3. Where's the line between "stable" and unstable/beta/whatever? Who draws it? What about "stable" LTS kernel regressions which have been aplenty so far? Also please refer to this comment https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoronix-articles/1389353-those-using-the-xfs-file-system-will-want-to-avoid-linux-6-3-for-now?p=1389359#post1389359 https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/latest-phoron... because this argument that "LTS or distro kernels are stable" has never been true. It's been nothing but a very bad myth. > a hardware or software RAID configuration. Again, there's a person without raid in the comments. Could you please drop it and make it look like those people are somehow extremely unlucky and everyone else is safe?
- e12e 3y ago
  > this argument that "LTS or distro kernels are stable" has never been true. It's been nothing but a very bad myth. It might have some mythical aspects, but if 10 000 people have run a certain kernel/FS combination without issue for a few months - you can reasonably expect that particular set of binary artifacts to work well if you install/run them in the same way. Now, if you change the sources, adjust the configs and compile flags - you can be less certain everything will work. That doesn't mean kernel.org kernels are unstable - it just means change drives risk (often justifiable risk).
- mroche 3y ago
  > 1. People compile released kernels found on kernel.org. I do. 2. Multiple distros release kernel.org kernel releases quite fast including Arch and Gentoo. There's also a Ubuntu PPA with the mainline kernel many people, who I personally know, use. To repeat myself, the is the _Red Hat Bugzilla bug tracker for Fedora_. While what you say is true, that's outside the context of what the OP and I are saying, and the statement in the ticket. As seen in the ticket, users of other distros and kernel configs have made comments reporting their experience with the 6.3 series, but that is besides the point I was making above. Anyone performing their own builds (even on Fedora) are more than welcome to contribute and test, but that's outside the bounds of the Fedora QA process. > Again, there's a person without raid in the comments. Could you please drop it and make it look like those people are somehow extremely unlucky and everyone else is safe? I'm not the original thread starter, but I read through the ticket earlier and unless I misinterpreted one of the comments or missed something in the wall of text that is RHBZ, I didn't see a RAID-less reporter.
  - rincebrain 3y ago
    > I didn't see a RAID-less reporter. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2208553#c24 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2208553#c24 says "no hardware RAID", which was the original context of the claims about RAID versus no RAID. Also reportedly https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/fs/xfs/libxfs/xfs_bmap.c?id=9419092fb2630c30e4ffeb9ef61007ef0c61827a https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/lin... fixes it, with the hypothesis being sometimes instead of livelocking, they return an incorrect mapping to be written out.

e12e 3y ago

I'm sorry - in the context of rhel (ed: Fedora) - this affects opt-in testers. Tbh, I'd say anyone compiling their kernel off kernel.org releases, also do opt-in testing in a certain sense (you're more likely to end up with a concrete "sum" of compiled/configured kernel/user space that is unique to your setup). Contrast this with a (stable) distro release, where you can at least hope what you get has been tested (like by the people reporting this bug). I certainly agree that any stable kernel org release is expected to work - but also somewhat expected to receive fixes for as-yet unknown bugs (hence point releases). TFA is a bug report against rhel (Ed: Fedora )- i can't find anything (recent) on lkml?

ilyt 3y ago

Waht "myth" ? Most people just dont compile kernel directly from there but instead takes it from distro