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It might be "2 times as expensive" up front, but not for the TCO. People really need to remember maintenance costs over the ownership period. In a Tesla all y

It might be "2 times as expensive" up front, but not for the TCO. People really need to remember maintenance costs over the ownership period. In a Tesla all you're really paying for is tyre rotation / alignment / rubber replacements, and air filters. Plus the electricity, in place of fuel. The savings add up significantly.

londons_explore 3y ago
People who care about price don't pay $3k/year on car servicing at a car dealer... They buy some reliable model and pay $50 for an oil change every other year.
- yurishimo 3y ago
  I assume you're not in the US since your pricing is totally out of place with most US consumer spending on vehicle maintenance. $50 for an oil change is about right, but every other year? Even Americans who don't drive that often will generally change it about every 6 months. Not to mention things like tires have a lifespan. Even if they aren't worn out, most tires are not meant to be used for longer than around 5 years. As the rubber ages, its composition changes and it does not perform to the rated specifications. Even cheap tires are $100/ea for everything larger than a subcompact economy car. $400 for tires, divided by 5 years; you get the idea. Car ownership in America does not need to be expensive, but it's nothing like the European mentality. I took my car to a mechanic for an unrelated issue and asked them to change the oil and check fluids while they had it in the shop (I bought it about 6 months earlier) and they called to tell me they weren't going to change it because it wasn't necessary and had paperwork to prove it. This was in the Netherlands in a small town. But here I drive my car 50km a week vs 50km a day when I lived in the US.
  - oefrha 3y ago
    > Even Americans who don't drive that often will generally change it about every 6 months. What? Back when I drove a Corolla (in the U.S.) I never changed my oil more than once a year, and no one ever pestered me about it. Where did you get that?
    - e36 3y ago
      From what I can tell, the average American drives somewhere between 12,000-15,000 miles a year. The average oil change interval for modern cars is 7,500-10,000 miles, so using the higher interval you would expect to change your oil roughly twice a year.
      - saltcured 3y ago
        I believe these published averages are arithmetic mean and may be skewed by long-distance drivers and multi-car households. As reported, it seems to be just total fleet mileage divided by number of drivers. For this kind of question about maintenance, I wish I could find a histogram or at least quartile summaries of per-vehicle distances per year.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    Most manufacturers suggest 12,000 mile oil changes. By the time your vehicle is old and less valuable, 25,000 miles makes more sense as long as the oil from the last change didn't show signs of contamination by water/soot/particulates (since the cost of the oil change is fixed, but the additional devaluation of the vehicle by not changing the oil is much less). For a typical driver, that makes it once per 2 years. Things like tyres are normally bought part-worn. My last set was $25/tyre, inc fitting, with 5mm tread left. Degradation can be determined by visual inspection - rubber does degrade, but it isn't a safety hazard until there are cracks allowing light to get to the cords in the tyre (light degrades the cords, which is a safety hazard).
    - e36 3y ago
      Your tire advice is pretty scary. Unless you are very certain of the sourcing of these used tires, and you live somewhere that doesn't see any precipitation or inclement weather, you are taking a serious chance.
x3874 3y ago
Is this myth still lingering on? You have to pay a lot more on maintenace for Teslas: brake pads, shattered roofs, fogging taillights, broken control arms, drive units, worn out seats, MCUs, tail bumpers lost in the rain, ... that list goes on. Provided Tesla can deliver spare parts, which they frequently can't for months, which is a story in itself (hint: having to support x iterations may work for SW, but not for cars that are on the road for 10+ years)
- gitfan86 3y ago
  I didn't know Toyota had introduced a model where the glass cannot break and the seats don't take wear and tear. What model is that? Does that model also not require oil changes?
  - itsoktocry 3y ago
    >Does that model also not require oil changes? Ah yes, the $100 annual cost of oil changes. EVs are cheaper to maintain, generally. But the Tesla is a premium vehicle for which no after market parts are available, so there's a significant gap there.
    - bryanlarsen 3y ago
      Wear parts like brake calipers and tie rods generally seem to be available on third party aftermarket for Tesla's.
    - buffington 3y ago
      How are you maintaining your oil at $100 a year? I have two ICE vehicles and I change the oil for each myself according to the manufacturers' recommended maintenance schedules. Changing the oil for one car, once, costs $42 for oil and $16 for the filter. The yearly cost for one car with a 7500 mile recommendation is about $116 (two total changes a year typically, though it looks like I did it three times last year for that vehicle). I've had a Model 3 for 2 years now. Total cost of ownership (excluding insurance and registration fees): $1578. That's ALL costs, including electricity used to charge the battery. The majority of those costs: a set of new tires at $1050. As far as a lack of after market parts go: what parts would you expect to see on the after market? The things one needs to buy for a Tesla are represented quite well in the after market. Tires, brake pads, cabin air filters - plenty to choose from, and widely available at any auto parts store. Tell me more about this "significant gap" of after market parts.
peoplefromibiza 3y ago
> In a Tesla all you're really paying for is tyre rotation I change my tires every 20,000-25,000 kms for me it means every 3 years my car runs on LPG, which is half the price of gas Never ever done any particular kind of maintenance in over 10 years. You can buy 6-7 brand new "my cars" with the money spent on a Tesla. Yes, it's a cheap car, I chose it exactly because it's cheap and robust, I use it in a city, I park it on the road, there's no need for a >45k car, I would argue it's borderline stupid to buy a very expensive EV to drive it in a city. EVs are expensive by default, their TCO might be lower in perfect ideal scenarios, until you run into an issue, most of the cost is due the complexity, non-EV cars are much much much dumber and simpler. You can't independently fix an EV, there's no way.
- hiatus 3y ago
  What car do you have that costs 1/7th the price of a tesla and has no maintenance required whatsoever (including oil changes)?
  - peoplefromibiza 3y ago
    Suzuki Alto You can buy it new for 7,300 euros taxes included in Italy. Full optional. I change oil more or less every 20,000 kms, which is more than two years driving for me. I change it myself, I only need to buy the oil that costs about 20-25 euros for a full change. Other than that, the car is basically maintenance free.
    - thdespou 3y ago
      Suzuki's are the best. Reliable, cheap and maintenance free.
itsoktocry 3y ago
>People really need to remember maintenance costs over the ownership period. What people really need to do is the actual calculation, instead of saying things like "the Tesla will make it up over its lifespan". Will it, really? The difference between a model Y and Corolla is, what, $10k-15k? That is a huge difference to make up. Most of the maintenance requirements a ICE has are required by an EV, too (less oil changes). Parts are way more expensive on the Tesla than the Toyota. Oh, and do you think that governments are going to just let EVs operate on subsidized electricity forever? No, they will directly tax it in the future. Meanwhile, gasoline prices could decrease over time as the world transitions to greener sources. After all, have to pump the oil (increase supply) while it has value. TL;DR People who buy a Tesla to "save money" are likely in for a shock.
- buffington 3y ago
  > Most of the maintenance requirements a ICE has are required by an EV, too (less oil changes). Parts are way more expensive on the Tesla than the Toyota. You've expressed this idea about parts a few times in this thread, yet haven't actually proven that. How about some comparisons of what some parts, common to both a Model Y and a Corolla, cost? I'll give it a shot: A control arm for a 2022 Model Y: about $150. A control arm for a 2022 Corolla: about $150. Rear door window glass for a 2022 Model Y: about $190. Rear door window glass for a 2022 Corolla: about $190. Hood for a 2022 Model Y: about $500. Hood for a 2022 Corolla: about $477. I'm not even cherry picking - literally just thinking of a part and searching for prices. Without a doubt, there are parts on a Tesla that cost a lot more than the same part on a Corolla, but I haven't found them. Point is: you're incorrect when you repeat the myth that Tesla parts are any more expensive than any other vehicle of the same model year. Most parts cost the same. Bigger point: of the parts most frequently replaced on a ICE vehicle, the Tesla typically doesn't have those same parts. Fan belts, fuel injectors, timing belts, clutches, valves, alternators, and so on. TL;DR People who buy a Tesla to "save money" are likely saving money.

londons_explore 3y ago

People who care about price don't pay $3k/year on car servicing at a car dealer... They buy some reliable model and pay $50 for an oil change every other year.

yurishimo 3y ago
I assume you're not in the US since your pricing is totally out of place with most US consumer spending on vehicle maintenance. $50 for an oil change is about right, but every other year? Even Americans who don't drive that often will generally change it about every 6 months. Not to mention things like tires have a lifespan. Even if they aren't worn out, most tires are not meant to be used for longer than around 5 years. As the rubber ages, its composition changes and it does not perform to the rated specifications. Even cheap tires are $100/ea for everything larger than a subcompact economy car. $400 for tires, divided by 5 years; you get the idea. Car ownership in America does not need to be expensive, but it's nothing like the European mentality. I took my car to a mechanic for an unrelated issue and asked them to change the oil and check fluids while they had it in the shop (I bought it about 6 months earlier) and they called to tell me they weren't going to change it because it wasn't necessary and had paperwork to prove it. This was in the Netherlands in a small town. But here I drive my car 50km a week vs 50km a day when I lived in the US.
- oefrha 3y ago
  > Even Americans who don't drive that often will generally change it about every 6 months. What? Back when I drove a Corolla (in the U.S.) I never changed my oil more than once a year, and no one ever pestered me about it. Where did you get that?
  - e36 3y ago
    From what I can tell, the average American drives somewhere between 12,000-15,000 miles a year. The average oil change interval for modern cars is 7,500-10,000 miles, so using the higher interval you would expect to change your oil roughly twice a year.
    - saltcured 3y ago
      I believe these published averages are arithmetic mean and may be skewed by long-distance drivers and multi-car households. As reported, it seems to be just total fleet mileage divided by number of drivers. For this kind of question about maintenance, I wish I could find a histogram or at least quartile summaries of per-vehicle distances per year.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  Most manufacturers suggest 12,000 mile oil changes. By the time your vehicle is old and less valuable, 25,000 miles makes more sense as long as the oil from the last change didn't show signs of contamination by water/soot/particulates (since the cost of the oil change is fixed, but the additional devaluation of the vehicle by not changing the oil is much less). For a typical driver, that makes it once per 2 years. Things like tyres are normally bought part-worn. My last set was $25/tyre, inc fitting, with 5mm tread left. Degradation can be determined by visual inspection - rubber does degrade, but it isn't a safety hazard until there are cracks allowing light to get to the cords in the tyre (light degrades the cords, which is a safety hazard).
  - e36 3y ago
    Your tire advice is pretty scary. Unless you are very certain of the sourcing of these used tires, and you live somewhere that doesn't see any precipitation or inclement weather, you are taking a serious chance.

x3874 3y ago

Is this myth still lingering on? You have to pay a lot more on maintenace for Teslas: brake pads, shattered roofs, fogging taillights, broken control arms, drive units, worn out seats, MCUs, tail bumpers lost in the rain, ... that list goes on. Provided Tesla can deliver spare parts, which they frequently can't for months, which is a story in itself (hint: having to support x iterations may work for SW, but not for cars that are on the road for 10+ years)

gitfan86 3y ago
I didn't know Toyota had introduced a model where the glass cannot break and the seats don't take wear and tear. What model is that? Does that model also not require oil changes?
- itsoktocry 3y ago
  >Does that model also not require oil changes? Ah yes, the $100 annual cost of oil changes. EVs are cheaper to maintain, generally. But the Tesla is a premium vehicle for which no after market parts are available, so there's a significant gap there.
  - bryanlarsen 3y ago
    Wear parts like brake calipers and tie rods generally seem to be available on third party aftermarket for Tesla's.
  - buffington 3y ago
    How are you maintaining your oil at $100 a year? I have two ICE vehicles and I change the oil for each myself according to the manufacturers' recommended maintenance schedules. Changing the oil for one car, once, costs $42 for oil and $16 for the filter. The yearly cost for one car with a 7500 mile recommendation is about $116 (two total changes a year typically, though it looks like I did it three times last year for that vehicle). I've had a Model 3 for 2 years now. Total cost of ownership (excluding insurance and registration fees): $1578. That's ALL costs, including electricity used to charge the battery. The majority of those costs: a set of new tires at $1050. As far as a lack of after market parts go: what parts would you expect to see on the after market? The things one needs to buy for a Tesla are represented quite well in the after market. Tires, brake pads, cabin air filters - plenty to choose from, and widely available at any auto parts store. Tell me more about this "significant gap" of after market parts.

peoplefromibiza 3y ago

> In a Tesla all you're really paying for is tyre rotation I change my tires every 20,000-25,000 kms for me it means every 3 years my car runs on LPG, which is half the price of gas Never ever done any particular kind of maintenance in over 10 years. You can buy 6-7 brand new "my cars" with the money spent on a Tesla. Yes, it's a cheap car, I chose it exactly because it's cheap and robust, I use it in a city, I park it on the road, there's no need for a >45k car, I would argue it's borderline stupid to buy a very expensive EV to drive it in a city. EVs are expensive by default, their TCO might be lower in perfect ideal scenarios, until you run into an issue, most of the cost is due the complexity, non-EV cars are much much much dumber and simpler. You can't independently fix an EV, there's no way.

hiatus 3y ago
What car do you have that costs 1/7th the price of a tesla and has no maintenance required whatsoever (including oil changes)?
- peoplefromibiza 3y ago
  Suzuki Alto You can buy it new for 7,300 euros taxes included in Italy. Full optional. I change oil more or less every 20,000 kms, which is more than two years driving for me. I change it myself, I only need to buy the oil that costs about 20-25 euros for a full change. Other than that, the car is basically maintenance free.
  - thdespou 3y ago
    Suzuki's are the best. Reliable, cheap and maintenance free.

itsoktocry 3y ago

>People really need to remember maintenance costs over the ownership period. What people really need to do is the actual calculation, instead of saying things like "the Tesla will make it up over its lifespan". Will it, really? The difference between a model Y and Corolla is, what, $10k-15k? That is a huge difference to make up. Most of the maintenance requirements a ICE has are required by an EV, too (less oil changes). Parts are way more expensive on the Tesla than the Toyota. Oh, and do you think that governments are going to just let EVs operate on subsidized electricity forever? No, they will directly tax it in the future. Meanwhile, gasoline prices could decrease over time as the world transitions to greener sources. After all, have to pump the oil (increase supply) while it has value. TL;DR People who buy a Tesla to "save money" are likely in for a shock.

buffington 3y ago
> Most of the maintenance requirements a ICE has are required by an EV, too (less oil changes). Parts are way more expensive on the Tesla than the Toyota. You've expressed this idea about parts a few times in this thread, yet haven't actually proven that. How about some comparisons of what some parts, common to both a Model Y and a Corolla, cost? I'll give it a shot: A control arm for a 2022 Model Y: about $150. A control arm for a 2022 Corolla: about $150. Rear door window glass for a 2022 Model Y: about $190. Rear door window glass for a 2022 Corolla: about $190. Hood for a 2022 Model Y: about $500. Hood for a 2022 Corolla: about $477. I'm not even cherry picking - literally just thinking of a part and searching for prices. Without a doubt, there are parts on a Tesla that cost a lot more than the same part on a Corolla, but I haven't found them. Point is: you're incorrect when you repeat the myth that Tesla parts are any more expensive than any other vehicle of the same model year. Most parts cost the same. Bigger point: of the parts most frequently replaced on a ICE vehicle, the Tesla typically doesn't have those same parts. Fan belts, fuel injectors, timing belts, clutches, valves, alternators, and so on. TL;DR People who buy a Tesla to "save money" are likely saving money.