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Tesla must be getting desperate to give away a huge competitive advantage. Between this and using BYD batteries they are clearly being forced into some really u

by mvdtnz 3y ago

Tesla must be getting desperate to give away a huge competitive advantage. Between this and using BYD batteries they are clearly being forced into some really uncomfortable business relationships.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago
China limits LFP batteries from not being put into cars that aren't made in China (they literally can't export them unless they are in a vehicle), and they have a distinct cost advantage even if they are heavier. Tesla is using those batteries to get the Model 3 there to $30k (which is the limit to qualify for the current subsidies in China). It is a brilliant move by China: they have the tech, no one else seems to have it, and by not exporting it outside of completed cars, they can get an advantage.
- _ea1k 3y ago
  If that is true, where do the LFP batteries for US made Model 3 come from?
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    The US model 3 didn’t use LFP. See https://evcentral.com.au/teslas-made-in-china-versus-the-usa-whats-the-difference-the-ultimate-model-3-sr-comparison-test/#:~:text=While%20the%20cars%20look%20identical,aluminium%20oxide%20(NCA)%20batteries https://evcentral.com.au/teslas-made-in-china-versus-the-usa.... > While the cars look identical to those still made in America, there is one key difference: the batteries. > Chinese Model 3s use lithium-iron phosphate (or lithium ferro phosphate/LFP) batteries instead of the previous lithium nickel cobalt aluminium oxide (NCA) batteries. But maybe this changed recently? Here it says the model 3 standard doesn’t qualify for the credit because it uses a Chinese made LFP: https://pandaily.com/batteries-from-chinese-made-tesla-model-3-standard-range-version-lose-tax-break/ https://pandaily.com/batteries-from-chinese-made-tesla-model...
    - _ea1k 3y ago
      Yes, the base Model 3 was switched to an LFP pack a while back. It is now ~60kwh LFP, and also quite a bit slower than it was before. This new base Model 3 dropped the "SR+" designation at the same time.
bilvar 3y ago
Copium.
electrondood 3y ago
Selling access to your infrastructure, where you have a monopoly on reliable charging stations, where your entire mission is to 'accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy' is... desperate? I don't think you're seeing this clearly.

by mvdtnz 3y ago

Tesla must be getting desperate to give away a huge competitive advantage. Between this and using BYD batteries they are clearly being forced into some really uncomfortable business relationships.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

China limits LFP batteries from not being put into cars that aren't made in China (they literally can't export them unless they are in a vehicle), and they have a distinct cost advantage even if they are heavier. Tesla is using those batteries to get the Model 3 there to $30k (which is the limit to qualify for the current subsidies in China). It is a brilliant move by China: they have the tech, no one else seems to have it, and by not exporting it outside of completed cars, they can get an advantage.

_ea1k 3y ago
If that is true, where do the LFP batteries for US made Model 3 come from?
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  The US model 3 didn’t use LFP. See https://evcentral.com.au/teslas-made-in-china-versus-the-usa-whats-the-difference-the-ultimate-model-3-sr-comparison-test/#:~:text=While%20the%20cars%20look%20identical,aluminium%20oxide%20(NCA)%20batteries https://evcentral.com.au/teslas-made-in-china-versus-the-usa.... > While the cars look identical to those still made in America, there is one key difference: the batteries. > Chinese Model 3s use lithium-iron phosphate (or lithium ferro phosphate/LFP) batteries instead of the previous lithium nickel cobalt aluminium oxide (NCA) batteries. But maybe this changed recently? Here it says the model 3 standard doesn’t qualify for the credit because it uses a Chinese made LFP: https://pandaily.com/batteries-from-chinese-made-tesla-model-3-standard-range-version-lose-tax-break/ https://pandaily.com/batteries-from-chinese-made-tesla-model...
  - _ea1k 3y ago
    Yes, the base Model 3 was switched to an LFP pack a while back. It is now ~60kwh LFP, and also quite a bit slower than it was before. This new base Model 3 dropped the "SR+" designation at the same time.

bilvar 3y ago

Copium.

electrondood 3y ago

Selling access to your infrastructure, where you have a monopoly on reliable charging stations, where your entire mission is to 'accelerate the world's transition to sustainable energy' is... desperate? I don't think you're seeing this clearly.