4 ms·

You're missing the point that left/right/democrat/republican religions are a divide and conquer strategy to distract from the realization that there is no democ

You're missing the point that left/right/democrat/republican religions are a divide and conquer strategy to distract from the realization that there is no democracy.

dekhn 3y ago
Uh, no? Left and right are generalized terms used to describe political philosophies. Democrat and republican are terms used to describe political parties- those parties don't fully overlap with left and right, and in fact the parties have completely changed their overlap over time. We (Americans) live in a representative democracy (for choosing public officials) and that democracy gives a great deal of influence and power to capitalists/industrialists (the "racket"), which has been absolutely successful in establishing and maintaining the existence and wealth of the country. If you want to argue there is no democracy, find another person to argue with; my premise begins with the US being a representative democracy.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
  It is a representative Democracy. I vote directly for all of my representatives. Anyone arguing it's not is moving goalposts or arguing No True Scotsman.
  - mistermann 3y ago
    For semantic clarity: are you saying that it ticks the boxes for being a "representative democracy", but not extending the meaning of the word representative to encompass representative of the will of the constituents? > Anyone arguing it's not is moving goalposts or arguing No True Scotsman. With this be considered rhetoric?
    - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
      I have a government that I choose through voting. It's not complicated.
      - norir 3y ago
        Do you choose the candidates? Do you influence what they actually work on once in office with your votes? Do our elected officials generally prioritize the needs of those who cast votes for them or those who bankrolled their campaigns? Who btw bankrolled the campaigns? Is your vote nearly as powerful as their dollars?
      - mistermann 3y ago
        If you avoid answering questions about your theories it can certainly appear to be not complicated, but whether it actually is is another matter.
TeMPOraL 3y ago
Looking from outside as a non-American, I feel that Democrats and Republicans are really first and foremost sports clubs. Any actual political leanings are mostly based on what is most likely to keep support of their existing fans, and secondarily a matter of inertia. And nowhere in these splits - neither in Democrat/Republican, nor in left/right - is there any notion of actually looking at the problem and trying to find an actual, effective, efficient solution, that maximizes the desired impact and minimizes undesired second-order effects.
- kodah 3y ago
  That is exactly how it works, just none of the constituents think that's how it works on their team, so we're in this sort of stasis. The unsolved and repeatedly retrodden problems are called wedge issues and they're key to these teams staying in power collectively.
  - GolfPopper 3y ago
    I recall the mid-Obama years where I had a lot of acquaintances (now almost equally split between "left" and "right") who didn't see a lot of difference between Bush and Obama on a great many issues. They were sick of foreign wars, the military-security state, unfettered corporate abuses, and the elision of many issues that impacted Americans from any public discussion on either side of the aisle. The prospect of a (Jeb) Bush vs. (Hillary) Clinton race seemed emblematic of a government that was a democracy in form, but not in practice. And then along came Trump who nicely put everyone I know (myself included) in either pro-Trump or anti-Trump camps.
  - banannaise 3y ago
    Some people don't understand it, but when you actually talk to people, you find that at least a pretty substantial portion are very aware of it but don't feel empowered to do anything that can change it. All forms of change that aren't voting are either de jure or de facto illegal. Sure, you can march... on a route cleared with the authorities... with a permit 90 days in advance... as long as absolutely nothing untoward happens within two blocks.
- 3y ago
all2 3y ago
[flagged]
- tinco 3y ago
  Trump's election proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the elections are as fair as they could ever be. Not in a million years would anyone in any establishment left or right have wished for Trump to be president in 2016. Yet it happened anyway.
  - njarboe 3y ago
    Maybe you could say that for the 2016 election. Trump lost in 2020.
    - bee_rider 3y ago
      Which just goes to show that the system was robust even against tampering from the administration (in that case at least).
  - bee_rider 3y ago
    To be specific, it proved that the elections are “fair” in the sense that they follow the rules as written. They don’t, for example, fairly represent the populace.
- HFguy 3y ago
  Hasn't 2000 Mules been debunked multiple times? It is basically "election was stolen" nonsense. Why do you think it is true? https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/07/texas-ken-paxton-2000-mules-sid-miller/ https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/07/texas-ken-paxton-200... https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/11/2000-mules-offers-least-convincing-election-fraud-theory-yet/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/11/2000-mule...
  - all2 3y ago
    I don't know about the debunking. I do know what I saw with my own eyes; the video shows people stuffing ballots in boxes all across the country. There's also the weird phenomena where ballot counting was shut down in four states simultaneously and then restarted. Suddenly there was a statistical anomaly of hundreds of thousands of votes for Biden. And there's other weird stuff that I honestly should have been keeping track of. I don't think the election was fair, I think it was rigged. And I think it smells so badly that I suspect our elections have been rigged for a long, long time.

You're missing the point that left/right/democrat/republican religions are a divide and conquer strategy to distract from the realization that there is no democracy.

dekhn 3y ago

Uh, no? Left and right are generalized terms used to describe political philosophies. Democrat and republican are terms used to describe political parties- those parties don't fully overlap with left and right, and in fact the parties have completely changed their overlap over time. We (Americans) live in a representative democracy (for choosing public officials) and that democracy gives a great deal of influence and power to capitalists/industrialists (the "racket"), which has been absolutely successful in establishing and maintaining the existence and wealth of the country. If you want to argue there is no democracy, find another person to argue with; my premise begins with the US being a representative democracy.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
It is a representative Democracy. I vote directly for all of my representatives. Anyone arguing it's not is moving goalposts or arguing No True Scotsman.
- mistermann 3y ago
  For semantic clarity: are you saying that it ticks the boxes for being a "representative democracy", but not extending the meaning of the word representative to encompass representative of the will of the constituents? > Anyone arguing it's not is moving goalposts or arguing No True Scotsman. With this be considered rhetoric?
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
    I have a government that I choose through voting. It's not complicated.
    - norir 3y ago
      Do you choose the candidates? Do you influence what they actually work on once in office with your votes? Do our elected officials generally prioritize the needs of those who cast votes for them or those who bankrolled their campaigns? Who btw bankrolled the campaigns? Is your vote nearly as powerful as their dollars?
    - mistermann 3y ago
      If you avoid answering questions about your theories it can certainly appear to be not complicated, but whether it actually is is another matter.

TeMPOraL 3y ago

Looking from outside as a non-American, I feel that Democrats and Republicans are really first and foremost sports clubs. Any actual political leanings are mostly based on what is most likely to keep support of their existing fans, and secondarily a matter of inertia. And nowhere in these splits - neither in Democrat/Republican, nor in left/right - is there any notion of actually looking at the problem and trying to find an actual, effective, efficient solution, that maximizes the desired impact and minimizes undesired second-order effects.

kodah 3y ago
That is exactly how it works, just none of the constituents think that's how it works on their team, so we're in this sort of stasis. The unsolved and repeatedly retrodden problems are called wedge issues and they're key to these teams staying in power collectively.
- GolfPopper 3y ago
  I recall the mid-Obama years where I had a lot of acquaintances (now almost equally split between "left" and "right") who didn't see a lot of difference between Bush and Obama on a great many issues. They were sick of foreign wars, the military-security state, unfettered corporate abuses, and the elision of many issues that impacted Americans from any public discussion on either side of the aisle. The prospect of a (Jeb) Bush vs. (Hillary) Clinton race seemed emblematic of a government that was a democracy in form, but not in practice. And then along came Trump who nicely put everyone I know (myself included) in either pro-Trump or anti-Trump camps.
- banannaise 3y ago
  Some people don't understand it, but when you actually talk to people, you find that at least a pretty substantial portion are very aware of it but don't feel empowered to do anything that can change it. All forms of change that aren't voting are either de jure or de facto illegal. Sure, you can march... on a route cleared with the authorities... with a permit 90 days in advance... as long as absolutely nothing untoward happens within two blocks.
3y ago

all2 3y ago

[flagged]

tinco 3y ago
Trump's election proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that the elections are as fair as they could ever be. Not in a million years would anyone in any establishment left or right have wished for Trump to be president in 2016. Yet it happened anyway.
- njarboe 3y ago
  Maybe you could say that for the 2016 election. Trump lost in 2020.
  - bee_rider 3y ago
    Which just goes to show that the system was robust even against tampering from the administration (in that case at least).
- bee_rider 3y ago
  To be specific, it proved that the elections are “fair” in the sense that they follow the rules as written. They don’t, for example, fairly represent the populace.
HFguy 3y ago
Hasn't 2000 Mules been debunked multiple times? It is basically "election was stolen" nonsense. Why do you think it is true? https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/07/texas-ken-paxton-2000-mules-sid-miller/ https://www.texastribune.org/2022/10/07/texas-ken-paxton-200... https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/11/2000-mules-offers-least-convincing-election-fraud-theory-yet/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/05/11/2000-mule...
- all2 3y ago
  I don't know about the debunking. I do know what I saw with my own eyes; the video shows people stuffing ballots in boxes all across the country. There's also the weird phenomena where ballot counting was shut down in four states simultaneously and then restarted. Suddenly there was a statistical anomaly of hundreds of thousands of votes for Biden. And there's other weird stuff that I honestly should have been keeping track of. I don't think the election was fair, I think it was rigged. And I think it smells so badly that I suspect our elections have been rigged for a long, long time.