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I think the best part about Nix is that it makes it super easy to get software into your development environment. This layered store is a pretty cool setup to m

I think the best part about Nix is that it makes it super easy to get software into your development environment. This layered store is a pretty cool setup to make that efficient for Replit. Not sure how if Nix/Replit has the program you’re looking for? Or what package name to use to actually get the program you want? Check out my cli search tool: https://github.com/peterldowns/nix-search-cli https://github.com/peterldowns/nix-search-cli Edit: I can’t help myself from ranting, it’s insane that I had to write this tool. Speaks to the lack of user focus in the Nix community. Even the blog post here doesn’t mention how to actually find packages to install! What good is a package manager that makes finding packages difficult? Who should be expected to tolerate such a thing?

ghuntley 3y ago
or https://search.nixos.org https://search.nixos.org if folks want a easy (and good way) to get up and running in the nix ecosystem w/services ala replace docker compose then https://devenv.sh https://devenv.sh is the shizz
- soraminazuki 3y ago
  Also, package search is also prominently featured in the NixOS homepage for folks who don't want to remember the URL.
otabdeveloper4 3y ago
> Speaks to the lack of user focus in the Nix community. Not really. Nix is not a tool, it's a toolkit for making your own tools. Very much in the vein of Unix, shell, etc. Many people don't use Nix for "installing" stuff. I personally use it for deploying software to servers without the (congnitive and performance) overhead of containers. I find search.nixos.org immensely useful, but don't really need it from the CLI.
- sterlind 3y ago
  > Not really. Nix is not a tool, it's a toolkit for making your own tools. Very much in the vein of Unix, shell, etc even tools for tools should be ergonomic to use. the Nix language server should have autocomplete, searches and interacting with the language should be easy, etc. and nearly everyone needs to hunt for packages, even if they're not "installing" them - they might be needed for the toolchain. Nix is like early Git. all the raw power is there, but little of the porcelain. it's so much better than anything before it that we accept the pain of dealing with exposed plumbing, but we shouldn't get used to it.
  - ghuntley 3y ago
    The last two years have seen an increased focus on usability, education and polish now that after circa 15 years of establishing solid foundations are in place. All good things in time. There’s no venture backed cash here paying for the polish that folks typically see in devtools launched in 2023. That polish is expensive to do and isn’t “fun or engaging” for the majority of developers thus classic open source problem of over indexing on serving the needs/existing people who do not need the polish. There’s some notable call-outs here of folks putting in serious effort such as https://nix.dev https://nix.dev ala https://cachix.org https://cachix.org out of love for nix to succeed. Yeah nix wants to grow, and it is, largest bazaar GitHub community/repo out there right now. starting to see venture backed companies forming who are building the polish as porcelain over the top and giving back. see https://floxdev.com/ https://floxdev.com/ at this stage nix is a damn safe bet because of what it can do, the problems it solves and the size of community.
    - pxc 3y ago
      > at this stage nix is a damn safe bet because of what it can do, the problems it solves and the size of community. In the last few years, Nix has gone from a place where I was sometimes uncomfortable recommending it to people to one where I feel like it would be unstrategic not to use it where it fits. If you know Nix today, you should be pushing it at your company wherever you can see a good use case.
      - 3y ago
sterlind 3y ago
why does it query search.nixos.org, rather than looking through your local nixpkgs? just because of how tricky it'd be to handle the nix language or hacking on the nix toolchain proper? also I agree that it's ridiculous nix doesn't have a search command. it baffles me.
- ghuntley 3y ago
  search.nixos.org also includes flakes that people PR into the index via GitHub at https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-search/issues https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-search/issues ps: $ nix search exists via experimental flags https://nixos.org/manual/nix/stable/command-ref/new-cli/nix3-search.html https://nixos.org/manual/nix/stable/command-ref/new-cli/nix3...
- lilyball 3y ago
  It does though. `nix search`.
- peter_l_downs 3y ago
  This exists and searches `search.nixos.org` for a few reasons: - you may want to search without downloading and indexing nixpkgs and the hydra results yourself - you may want to search by the name of the binaries/programs that will be installed, which is impossible to do by looking through a local package store alone - you may want the search to be fast - you may want to search from the command line `nix search` is a cruel joke which doesn't allow searching by the name/program that would be installed, only package name, and requires a flake name every time. Absolutely terrible interface. My tool is a single-install binary that performs fast and accurate search to help you find the right package name to install a given binary. I don't understand how after years of using other package managers anyone could want a search tool that does anything other than this by default. For more details on why this exists, check out https://github.com/peterldowns/nix-search-cli#motivation https://github.com/peterldowns/nix-search-cli#motivation
- aidenn0 3y ago
  Nix has several search commands, it's just none of them do quite what people want (e.g. "nix search" with flakes and "nix-query" without flakes search by name and description, "nix-locate" can search by contents but the interface is a bit obtuse) For those who want a local search for executables, and don't mind running nix-index: #!/bin/sh results="$(nix-locate -1 --regex --top-level "^/bin/${1}\$")" for item in $results; do nix search "nixpkgs#${item%.*}" done will search for a specific executable and give you (hopefully) reasonable output. If you don't have flakes enabled, you can just print the result of the command-substitution directly, but you won't get the short description.
jljljl 3y ago
Finding a specific version of a package is also really difficult. It requires you to find the commit hash in the Nixpkgs repo that last contained it, and there isn't a central search engine that lets you map version to commit. We ended up building package version search into the Devbox CLI for this reason (https://www.jetpack.io/devbox/docs/guides/pinning_packages/#searching-for-available-packages https://www.jetpack.io/devbox/docs/guides/pinning_packages/#...). There's also a 3rd party site that lets you search for Nix package versions (https://lazamar.co.uk/nix-versions/ https://lazamar.co.uk/nix-versions/)
- peter_l_downs 3y ago
  I'll have to check out devbox, thanks for the link. I don't understand why Nix doesn't have some way for derivations to claim that they install certain artifacts, which would make searching so much easier. The version thing is also really annoying, thanks for the helpful link, I hadn't seen that. Not sure how this will work in a Flakes world. Seems weird to me that sometimes packages are important enough to have multiple derivations each installing a different version (like the pythonFull packages) but there is no standard/good/default solution for it.
  - jljljl 3y ago
    Versioning is a bit easier with Flakes because they're generally published in their own Git repository, meaning you can use tags or branch refs to publish/install specific versions of a package. You can usually do something like `github:org/repo/ref#package` to get what you need.
    - peter_l_downs 3y ago
      Yes, but how will this work for the `nixpkgs` repository? Still very unclear! I'm 100% onboard with flakes in general, and use flakes to describe devshells + publish binaries when applicable -- like with the tool I linked in my earlier post.
- NathanOsullivan 3y ago
  Normally I would eye-roll at these kind of self promotions but it looks like you are trying to help with a real pain point of Nix. I put a good amount of time getting to grips with "raw" nix with the I imagine common yo-yo-ing between "I don't get it" and "oh I see, this is great" but when I realised how the intersection of nixpkgs and package versioning actually worked.. I was done. For a tool that from the outside seems is so heavily focused on immutability to just continually throw away old versions in nixpkgs head is a head scratcher, and as a monorepo isn't a great fit for utilising different revisions for different packages either. I can only guess that due to single repo containing every package it wasn't seen as practical to just continually append versions to, but when the diff log is just full of 'delete version X URL and it's hash, add X+1 and new hash' from the outside at least, it felt like a real missed opportunity.
adarsh-krishna 3y ago
Ended up building a tool which indexes every version of every package into a searchable tool. Was hacked together in a weekend, so the UI needs some polishing, but it's functional :) https://nixdex.dev https://nixdex.dev
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
jcpsimmons 3y ago
What is confusing about finding Nix packages? Just go to search.nixos.org There has been a trend in software dev towards solving problems that don’t need solved. I’ve never been confused about how to find packages for nix.
- soraminazuki 3y ago
  It's genuinely nice to have a CLI frontend for search.nixos.org, so I wouldn't call it a problem that doesn't need solving. But the rant about not being able to search packages is simply wrong IMHO.
- tadfisher 3y ago
  Or `nix search nixpkgs <query>`
toastal 3y ago
That's a use case, but for from the best. Nix lets you create immutable, reproducible packages/OSs/deploys--and can be built on arbitrary fleets of machines with shared caches. Just bringing in tools to the developer environment means the distribution of its tools is immutable but everything you plan to do with it inside that environment is mututable. The forest is missed for the trees if folks think dev shells are the killer feature.
- pxc 3y ago
  devShells are nice because they have a really low investment to benefit ratio. They're nice because they can often be a clear win for many teams even if they have little prior Nix experience. But you're right! Deeper investment, starting with actually performing your builds with Nix, yields greater benefits, and teams that never take that next step miss out on that.
  - toastal 3y ago
    I wouldn’t disagree, but it’s like stepping into the kiddy pool without bothering to learn to swim to unlock all the other opportunities to swim (and possibly save others too).
masfrost 3y ago
If you try to run a binary from replit's shell it will find a package to run it with and will prompt you if there are multiple options

ghuntley 3y ago

or https://search.nixos.org https://search.nixos.org if folks want a easy (and good way) to get up and running in the nix ecosystem w/services ala replace docker compose then https://devenv.sh https://devenv.sh is the shizz

soraminazuki 3y ago
Also, package search is also prominently featured in the NixOS homepage for folks who don't want to remember the URL.

otabdeveloper4 3y ago

> Speaks to the lack of user focus in the Nix community. Not really. Nix is not a tool, it's a toolkit for making your own tools. Very much in the vein of Unix, shell, etc. Many people don't use Nix for "installing" stuff. I personally use it for deploying software to servers without the (congnitive and performance) overhead of containers. I find search.nixos.org immensely useful, but don't really need it from the CLI.

sterlind 3y ago
> Not really. Nix is not a tool, it's a toolkit for making your own tools. Very much in the vein of Unix, shell, etc even tools for tools should be ergonomic to use. the Nix language server should have autocomplete, searches and interacting with the language should be easy, etc. and nearly everyone needs to hunt for packages, even if they're not "installing" them - they might be needed for the toolchain. Nix is like early Git. all the raw power is there, but little of the porcelain. it's so much better than anything before it that we accept the pain of dealing with exposed plumbing, but we shouldn't get used to it.
- ghuntley 3y ago
  The last two years have seen an increased focus on usability, education and polish now that after circa 15 years of establishing solid foundations are in place. All good things in time. There’s no venture backed cash here paying for the polish that folks typically see in devtools launched in 2023. That polish is expensive to do and isn’t “fun or engaging” for the majority of developers thus classic open source problem of over indexing on serving the needs/existing people who do not need the polish. There’s some notable call-outs here of folks putting in serious effort such as https://nix.dev https://nix.dev ala https://cachix.org https://cachix.org out of love for nix to succeed. Yeah nix wants to grow, and it is, largest bazaar GitHub community/repo out there right now. starting to see venture backed companies forming who are building the polish as porcelain over the top and giving back. see https://floxdev.com/ https://floxdev.com/ at this stage nix is a damn safe bet because of what it can do, the problems it solves and the size of community.
  - pxc 3y ago
    > at this stage nix is a damn safe bet because of what it can do, the problems it solves and the size of community. In the last few years, Nix has gone from a place where I was sometimes uncomfortable recommending it to people to one where I feel like it would be unstrategic not to use it where it fits. If you know Nix today, you should be pushing it at your company wherever you can see a good use case.
    - 3y ago

sterlind 3y ago

why does it query search.nixos.org, rather than looking through your local nixpkgs? just because of how tricky it'd be to handle the nix language or hacking on the nix toolchain proper? also I agree that it's ridiculous nix doesn't have a search command. it baffles me.

ghuntley 3y ago
search.nixos.org also includes flakes that people PR into the index via GitHub at https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-search/issues https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-search/issues ps: $ nix search exists via experimental flags https://nixos.org/manual/nix/stable/command-ref/new-cli/nix3-search.html https://nixos.org/manual/nix/stable/command-ref/new-cli/nix3...
lilyball 3y ago
It does though. `nix search`.
peter_l_downs 3y ago
This exists and searches `search.nixos.org` for a few reasons: - you may want to search without downloading and indexing nixpkgs and the hydra results yourself - you may want to search by the name of the binaries/programs that will be installed, which is impossible to do by looking through a local package store alone - you may want the search to be fast - you may want to search from the command line `nix search` is a cruel joke which doesn't allow searching by the name/program that would be installed, only package name, and requires a flake name every time. Absolutely terrible interface. My tool is a single-install binary that performs fast and accurate search to help you find the right package name to install a given binary. I don't understand how after years of using other package managers anyone could want a search tool that does anything other than this by default. For more details on why this exists, check out https://github.com/peterldowns/nix-search-cli#motivation https://github.com/peterldowns/nix-search-cli#motivation
aidenn0 3y ago
Nix has several search commands, it's just none of them do quite what people want (e.g. "nix search" with flakes and "nix-query" without flakes search by name and description, "nix-locate" can search by contents but the interface is a bit obtuse) For those who want a local search for executables, and don't mind running nix-index: #!/bin/sh results="$(nix-locate -1 --regex --top-level "^/bin/${1}\$")" for item in $results; do nix search "nixpkgs#${item%.*}" done will search for a specific executable and give you (hopefully) reasonable output. If you don't have flakes enabled, you can just print the result of the command-substitution directly, but you won't get the short description.

jljljl 3y ago

Finding a specific version of a package is also really difficult. It requires you to find the commit hash in the Nixpkgs repo that last contained it, and there isn't a central search engine that lets you map version to commit. We ended up building package version search into the Devbox CLI for this reason (https://www.jetpack.io/devbox/docs/guides/pinning_packages/#searching-for-available-packages https://www.jetpack.io/devbox/docs/guides/pinning_packages/#...). There's also a 3rd party site that lets you search for Nix package versions (https://lazamar.co.uk/nix-versions/ https://lazamar.co.uk/nix-versions/)

peter_l_downs 3y ago
I'll have to check out devbox, thanks for the link. I don't understand why Nix doesn't have some way for derivations to claim that they install certain artifacts, which would make searching so much easier. The version thing is also really annoying, thanks for the helpful link, I hadn't seen that. Not sure how this will work in a Flakes world. Seems weird to me that sometimes packages are important enough to have multiple derivations each installing a different version (like the pythonFull packages) but there is no standard/good/default solution for it.
- jljljl 3y ago
  Versioning is a bit easier with Flakes because they're generally published in their own Git repository, meaning you can use tags or branch refs to publish/install specific versions of a package. You can usually do something like `github:org/repo/ref#package` to get what you need.
  - peter_l_downs 3y ago
    Yes, but how will this work for the `nixpkgs` repository? Still very unclear! I'm 100% onboard with flakes in general, and use flakes to describe devshells + publish binaries when applicable -- like with the tool I linked in my earlier post.
NathanOsullivan 3y ago
Normally I would eye-roll at these kind of self promotions but it looks like you are trying to help with a real pain point of Nix. I put a good amount of time getting to grips with "raw" nix with the I imagine common yo-yo-ing between "I don't get it" and "oh I see, this is great" but when I realised how the intersection of nixpkgs and package versioning actually worked.. I was done. For a tool that from the outside seems is so heavily focused on immutability to just continually throw away old versions in nixpkgs head is a head scratcher, and as a monorepo isn't a great fit for utilising different revisions for different packages either. I can only guess that due to single repo containing every package it wasn't seen as practical to just continually append versions to, but when the diff log is just full of 'delete version X URL and it's hash, add X+1 and new hash' from the outside at least, it felt like a real missed opportunity.

adarsh-krishna 3y ago

Ended up building a tool which indexes every version of every package into a searchable tool. Was hacked together in a weekend, so the UI needs some polishing, but it's functional :) https://nixdex.dev https://nixdex.dev

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

jcpsimmons 3y ago

What is confusing about finding Nix packages? Just go to search.nixos.org There has been a trend in software dev towards solving problems that don’t need solved. I’ve never been confused about how to find packages for nix.

soraminazuki 3y ago
It's genuinely nice to have a CLI frontend for search.nixos.org, so I wouldn't call it a problem that doesn't need solving. But the rant about not being able to search packages is simply wrong IMHO.
tadfisher 3y ago
Or `nix search nixpkgs <query>`

toastal 3y ago

That's a use case, but for from the best. Nix lets you create immutable, reproducible packages/OSs/deploys--and can be built on arbitrary fleets of machines with shared caches. Just bringing in tools to the developer environment means the distribution of its tools is immutable but everything you plan to do with it inside that environment is mututable. The forest is missed for the trees if folks think dev shells are the killer feature.

pxc 3y ago
devShells are nice because they have a really low investment to benefit ratio. They're nice because they can often be a clear win for many teams even if they have little prior Nix experience. But you're right! Deeper investment, starting with actually performing your builds with Nix, yields greater benefits, and teams that never take that next step miss out on that.
- toastal 3y ago
  I wouldn’t disagree, but it’s like stepping into the kiddy pool without bothering to learn to swim to unlock all the other opportunities to swim (and possibly save others too).

masfrost 3y ago

If you try to run a binary from replit's shell it will find a package to run it with and will prompt you if there are multiple options