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I'm unfamiliar with what's going on here. It sounds like this thing vends Google account credentials for a small pool of accounts to be used anonymously? I've g

I'm unfamiliar with what's going on here. It sounds like this thing vends Google account credentials for a small pool of accounts to be used anonymously? I've gotta be misunderstanding something because that sounds like something that definitely should be blocked and would be wildly outside of Google's terms. How does this thingy work?

CameronNemo 3y ago
You've got it exactly right. Unfortunately, Google's Play Store is the only source for a number of proprietary applications that work mostly okay on degoogled android systems, including: * my bank app, and probably your's too * iNaturalist * various dating apps such as tinder, bumble, hinge, coffee meets bagel Edit: wonder if I could use a mirror instead? Edit2: ugh tried apkmirror. Might work. The client has ads (pretty sure google ads...) and popups. Some of the ads contained a download button? I got confused and concerned. Dipped out. I'll just be more dependent on my workstation(s). Phone still works as a phone, I presume.
- darkmighty 3y ago
  I really wish commercial apps would support alternative app stores. There are far worse offenders than Google, but it's currently quite intrusive and who knows if it won't get worse. I doubt the billions in rent they must collect every year on app sales really go on improving the OS experience. F-droid repository format would be easy enough to support a commercial repository you could manually activate, with signing and all.
  - londons_explore 3y ago
    > I doubt the billions in rent they must collect every year on app sales really go on improving the OS experience. Google has huge numbers of engineers working on Android... Although I do kinda wonder exactly what they're working on, considering each release of Android seems to be not very different from the previous one...
    - kodah 3y ago
      The larger the number of product devs, and the larger footprint of the product, the more people you need supporting them with tooling and infrastructure of various types.
- em-bee 3y ago
  it seems you can get iNaturalist also from github: https://github.com/inaturalist/iNaturalistAndroid/releases https://github.com/inaturalist/iNaturalistAndroid/releases i just checked my banks, they are on google play and on the huawei app store, the latter though is not really an alternative i would trust any more than google, and i didn't see if it allows download without an account, but fortunately for myself i don't want banking on my phone anyways, as the phone is the most likely device to break, lost or stolen, nor do i care about those others. but that's just me. i found apkmirror manageable, thanks to the adblocker i guess.
- 2h 3y ago
  > Google's Play Store is the only source for a number of proprietary applications No, that's not true: https://github.com/4cq2/googleplay https://github.com/4cq2/googleplay
  - int_19h 3y ago
    ... which is literally an app to download apps from Google Play Store?
    - 2h 3y ago
      whats your point?
      - RealStickman_ 3y ago
        Maybe you're confused about the client and server parts. The client for Google Play Store can be replaced by other apps like the one you linked. Though this is against Google's TOS. The server part of Google Play Store is where all the applications live. It is the biggest app repository for Android and most commercial apps are uploaded there. What the GP is advocating for is having developers upload their app to other app repositories in addition to the Play Store.
        2h 3y ago
        I'm not really confused, the original comment is just vague. they are looking for these apps, and are only aware of the official client, and other shady sites. I am giving an alternative that can be trusted, since it downloads directly from Google, without using the official app.
        RealStickman_ 3y ago
        Ok, but this statement is still true: > Google's Play Store is the only source for a number of proprietary applications
- hellojesus 3y ago
  It won't help with privacy, but if you want to use apps only sourced via the Google Play Store on degoogled, you can download the apk, extract it, and then load and install it on your device. I use grapheneos and have a separate profile that has GPS installed which allows me to download the apks. Then I adb in and transfer them from alt_profile->computer->no_gps_profile and install it.
- dublinben 3y ago
  Those apps are almost certainly available in the iOS app store as well.
branon 3y ago
Yes, that's exactly how it works, and yes, I install my banking app this way. It's not an issue from my perspective but I can see why Google doesn't like it. I don't have a Google account and am unable to obtain Play Store APKs any other way, so Aurora Store fills an important niche for me. I guess I will hold off on updating any Play Store apps until this is fixed or I can find another software/workaround.
ranger207 3y ago
Yes, that's correct, and yes it's a massive violation of the terms. Aurora Store also lets you use your own Google account, which is also outside of Google's terms. But the only way to get apps from the Google Play Store without installing the entire set of Google Play Services is this, so the entire setup is outside of Google's terms
- jraph 3y ago
  and without using something personal like your email address to download programs, which should be granted and was before mobile OSes. And still is on regular computers.
  - esperent 3y ago
    That's not really true, you can make a throwaway Gmail account in about 5 minutes. Make one per Android device, throw the login details into a password manager and forget about it. I've done this for several Android devices now and never run into any issues. Ironically when I tried to set up a legitimate Gmail account for my business and used it to set up several accounts, within few days it got locked with no recourse for unlocking - there was a comment box where I could beg for an unlocking, never even got a response though. So Gmail is only for throwaway accounts from now on.
    - novok 3y ago
      Is it possible without a phone number or other forms of near PII?
      - oaththrowaway 3y ago
        No
      - charcircuit 3y ago
        Yes, I have created several Google accounts without having to give real PII (Google requires a first name, last name, and a birthday)
danjoredd 3y ago
For people that want to anonymously use Android...people using Graphene OS for example...it is endlessly useful. You get all the benefits of a mobile operating system without giving your private data to Google.
- amf12 3y ago
  If I understand correctly, people can use Graphene OS anonymously. This was a workaround to use Google Play Services (Store?) anonymously. So the users want to have a piece of cake and eat it too.
  - chc 3y ago
    It's to allow them to get apps. I wouldn't describe being able to run apps without being involuntarily tracked by a third party as "having your cake and eating it too." It's just a basic expectation of privacy. As it happens, Google makes this basically impossible to do without running afoul of their TOS, but I would characterize that as Google being unreasonable, not the users.
    - danjoredd 3y ago
      With this turn of events I am considering just getting a GPS for navigation and using nothing but F-droid. Google is going to continue doing this nonsense since it is against the terms, so going full open source might be the answer for me
      - oynqr 3y ago
        Have you tried Organic Maps from F-Droid?
        danjoredd 3y ago
        I did but it couldn't find my Church's address when I gave it a test run. It still had our old address, even though we moved to a new building in 2017. Not sure how it gets information, but I didn't feel that I could trust it if it was giving six year old information
blendergeek 3y ago
> It sounds like this thing vends Google account credentials for a small pool of accounts to be used anonymously? Yep. It lets people anonymously download apps from Google Play. It provides privacy and usability. > I've gotta be misunderstanding something because that sounds like something that definitely should be blocked Is there any reason why users shouldn't be able to download apps anonymously? > and would be wildly outside of Google's terms. Unfortunately Google does prohibit this. I wish Google would allow people to download no-cost apps without an account. > How does this thingy work? Unfortunately, it only works when few people know about it.

CameronNemo 3y ago

You've got it exactly right. Unfortunately, Google's Play Store is the only source for a number of proprietary applications that work mostly okay on degoogled android systems, including: * my bank app, and probably your's too * iNaturalist * various dating apps such as tinder, bumble, hinge, coffee meets bagel Edit: wonder if I could use a mirror instead? Edit2: ugh tried apkmirror. Might work. The client has ads (pretty sure google ads...) and popups. Some of the ads contained a download button? I got confused and concerned. Dipped out. I'll just be more dependent on my workstation(s). Phone still works as a phone, I presume.

darkmighty 3y ago
I really wish commercial apps would support alternative app stores. There are far worse offenders than Google, but it's currently quite intrusive and who knows if it won't get worse. I doubt the billions in rent they must collect every year on app sales really go on improving the OS experience. F-droid repository format would be easy enough to support a commercial repository you could manually activate, with signing and all.
- londons_explore 3y ago
  > I doubt the billions in rent they must collect every year on app sales really go on improving the OS experience. Google has huge numbers of engineers working on Android... Although I do kinda wonder exactly what they're working on, considering each release of Android seems to be not very different from the previous one...
  - kodah 3y ago
    The larger the number of product devs, and the larger footprint of the product, the more people you need supporting them with tooling and infrastructure of various types.
em-bee 3y ago
it seems you can get iNaturalist also from github: https://github.com/inaturalist/iNaturalistAndroid/releases https://github.com/inaturalist/iNaturalistAndroid/releases i just checked my banks, they are on google play and on the huawei app store, the latter though is not really an alternative i would trust any more than google, and i didn't see if it allows download without an account, but fortunately for myself i don't want banking on my phone anyways, as the phone is the most likely device to break, lost or stolen, nor do i care about those others. but that's just me. i found apkmirror manageable, thanks to the adblocker i guess.
2h 3y ago
> Google's Play Store is the only source for a number of proprietary applications No, that's not true: https://github.com/4cq2/googleplay https://github.com/4cq2/googleplay
- int_19h 3y ago
  ... which is literally an app to download apps from Google Play Store?
  - 2h 3y ago
    whats your point?
    - RealStickman_ 3y ago
      Maybe you're confused about the client and server parts. The client for Google Play Store can be replaced by other apps like the one you linked. Though this is against Google's TOS. The server part of Google Play Store is where all the applications live. It is the biggest app repository for Android and most commercial apps are uploaded there. What the GP is advocating for is having developers upload their app to other app repositories in addition to the Play Store.
      - 2h 3y ago
        I'm not really confused, the original comment is just vague. they are looking for these apps, and are only aware of the official client, and other shady sites. I am giving an alternative that can be trusted, since it downloads directly from Google, without using the official app.
        RealStickman_ 3y ago
        Ok, but this statement is still true: > Google's Play Store is the only source for a number of proprietary applications
hellojesus 3y ago
It won't help with privacy, but if you want to use apps only sourced via the Google Play Store on degoogled, you can download the apk, extract it, and then load and install it on your device. I use grapheneos and have a separate profile that has GPS installed which allows me to download the apks. Then I adb in and transfer them from alt_profile->computer->no_gps_profile and install it.
dublinben 3y ago
Those apps are almost certainly available in the iOS app store as well.

branon 3y ago

Yes, that's exactly how it works, and yes, I install my banking app this way. It's not an issue from my perspective but I can see why Google doesn't like it. I don't have a Google account and am unable to obtain Play Store APKs any other way, so Aurora Store fills an important niche for me. I guess I will hold off on updating any Play Store apps until this is fixed or I can find another software/workaround.

ranger207 3y ago

Yes, that's correct, and yes it's a massive violation of the terms. Aurora Store also lets you use your own Google account, which is also outside of Google's terms. But the only way to get apps from the Google Play Store without installing the entire set of Google Play Services is this, so the entire setup is outside of Google's terms

jraph 3y ago
and without using something personal like your email address to download programs, which should be granted and was before mobile OSes. And still is on regular computers.
- esperent 3y ago
  That's not really true, you can make a throwaway Gmail account in about 5 minutes. Make one per Android device, throw the login details into a password manager and forget about it. I've done this for several Android devices now and never run into any issues. Ironically when I tried to set up a legitimate Gmail account for my business and used it to set up several accounts, within few days it got locked with no recourse for unlocking - there was a comment box where I could beg for an unlocking, never even got a response though. So Gmail is only for throwaway accounts from now on.
  - novok 3y ago
    Is it possible without a phone number or other forms of near PII?
    - oaththrowaway 3y ago
      No
    - charcircuit 3y ago
      Yes, I have created several Google accounts without having to give real PII (Google requires a first name, last name, and a birthday)

danjoredd 3y ago

For people that want to anonymously use Android...people using Graphene OS for example...it is endlessly useful. You get all the benefits of a mobile operating system without giving your private data to Google.

amf12 3y ago
If I understand correctly, people can use Graphene OS anonymously. This was a workaround to use Google Play Services (Store?) anonymously. So the users want to have a piece of cake and eat it too.
- chc 3y ago
  It's to allow them to get apps. I wouldn't describe being able to run apps without being involuntarily tracked by a third party as "having your cake and eating it too." It's just a basic expectation of privacy. As it happens, Google makes this basically impossible to do without running afoul of their TOS, but I would characterize that as Google being unreasonable, not the users.
  - danjoredd 3y ago
    With this turn of events I am considering just getting a GPS for navigation and using nothing but F-droid. Google is going to continue doing this nonsense since it is against the terms, so going full open source might be the answer for me
    - oynqr 3y ago
      Have you tried Organic Maps from F-Droid?
      - danjoredd 3y ago
        I did but it couldn't find my Church's address when I gave it a test run. It still had our old address, even though we moved to a new building in 2017. Not sure how it gets information, but I didn't feel that I could trust it if it was giving six year old information

blendergeek 3y ago

> It sounds like this thing vends Google account credentials for a small pool of accounts to be used anonymously? Yep. It lets people anonymously download apps from Google Play. It provides privacy and usability. > I've gotta be misunderstanding something because that sounds like something that definitely should be blocked Is there any reason why users shouldn't be able to download apps anonymously? > and would be wildly outside of Google's terms. Unfortunately Google does prohibit this. I wish Google would allow people to download no-cost apps without an account. > How does this thingy work? Unfortunately, it only works when few people know about it.