11 ms·

* Support damn Apple/Google Pay without requiring a email, phone number, login, or app! Or even allow that payment at the register, either before or after servi

by fowl2 3y ago

* Support damn Apple/Google Pay without requiring a email, phone number, login, or app! Or even allow that payment at the register, either before or after service. * Include the table number in the code! * Include any weekend/public holiday/service/surcharge in the prices! It makes sense not to print a new menu for 1 day a week, but this is digital and already implemented in your system! * Don't forcefully 'suggest' a tip before service has been delivered! (in places where tips aren't customary/required). * For fast food/take out places, include back-pressure in your ordering/time estimates. If there are 20 orders queued with one cook, don't give an estimate of 5 minutes! * Ordering in your own time is amazing! * Pictures are great! * Being able to instantly remove "out of stock" items, perfect! * Bill splitting "by default" is useful!

jeroenhd 3y ago
If only restaurants actually did that. All I've ever gotten from these are broken websites. Pictures are generic stock pictures (hiring a food photographer every time you change the menu is expensive), ordering is still done the old fashioned way as a means to get some overpriced drinks on your table as soon as possible, and "out of stock" is something you get told when you order because asking the kitchen to update the website as they cook is just unnecessary overhead. In theory this can be nice, but in practice restaurants seem to use these as a way to mess with prices on the fly or save on printing menus.
- smelendez 3y ago
  Ordering via code in the US would be a challenge I think. As you said, restaurants would lose the chance to offer drinks (and appetizers and specials), and servers might lose out on tips if there’s less customer interaction. Also, I think you’d want to charge people as they order to incentivize people to double check their orders, and that would make it harder for people to seamlessly treat each other or split shared items. In general I think people in the US have built a lot of little rituals and social customs around how restaurants work, for better or worse, and messing with those makes people uncomfortable, especially now after all the shifts around covid
  - dragonwriter 3y ago
    > Ordering via code in the US would be a challenge I think. As you said, restaurants would lose the chance to offer drinks (and appetizers and specials), and servers might lose out on tips if there’s less customer interaction. It might be a hard transition for a restaurant that currently has full table service, OTOH, it would be an easier challenge for a fast-casual restaurant (the kind that does “order & pay at the counter, get a number, then get served at your table”, to go to tableside ordering with QR menus.
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
Red Robin has terminals at each table that can take NFC payments. No need to enter an email address. Too bad they seem to be going out of business.
- nichos 3y ago
  Chilis does this too.
pier25 3y ago
Don't put your menu in fucking Facebook and force me download that app to see it.
matt-attack 3y ago
> without requiring an email, phone number, login That's precisely what Apple's App Clips are. I've used these on several restaurant receipts and they're amazing: https://developer.apple.com/app-clips/ https://developer.apple.com/app-clips/ You basically just scan the QR, checkout instantly with Apple Pay, and nothing to sign up for, and no horrible App to install.
- usrusr 3y ago
  What's the lowest rate you can do in-app purchases at in an app clip? And to put it in perspective with tips, how much of that goes to poor, underpaid Apple employees and how much goes to shareholders?
  - Reason077 3y ago
    In-app purchase fees only apply to digital downloaded content, not “real world” purchases like restaurant meals. Apple do get a small cut of all Apple Pay transactions, reported to be 0.15% in the US. In Europe it will be substantially less.
    - lights0123 3y ago
      Which comes out of the bank's share, not the merchant's.
      - Reason077 3y ago
        I've seen some patterns which suggest that might not always be the case. That is, apps which support Apple Pay but nudge you towards entering card details instead by making it not-the-default or hiding it behind an extra layer of UI. For example, the Odeon cinemas app or Too Good To Go (food app). I always assumed it must be because the merchant pays a higher fee for Apple Pay transactions.
        dwaite 3y ago
        > I always assumed it must be because the merchant pays a higher fee for Apple Pay transactions. I've never seen evidence of such, but there is certainly concern about becoming ever more reliant on credit card companies. So there can be an odd push to set up a first-party-account-based payment method (even if that winds up actually being backed by credit cards today). The behavior doesn't always make immediate sense - for example, Walmart going as far as to special-order payment terminals without NFC so that they can never accept contactless, but then having you pay with their app - with a credit card online transaction, which I believe is a higher rate. For some apps, it may be that they don't prioritize Apple Pay merely because they know only some browsers support it, and only some percentage of people on those browsers have set it up.
skohan 3y ago
The tipping function on electronic payments is a blight. I'm starting to see this regularly in Berlin, a place where tipping is not customary in many settings and just having this as a step you have to click through on the payment processor creates a level of social expectation.
- pishpash 3y ago
  Then have a thick skin and say no. That's the only way.
  - skohan 3y ago
    Oh I do. But are teenagers going to have a thick skin for instance? It's fine for me to reject it for now, but if it becomes a social expectation it will be hard to say no without facing social consequences. This is how American cultural norms proliferate through technology.
    - shortcake27 3y ago
      Agreed. I visited a pizza place in London a few years back which automatically added a 15% tip to all orders. You had to ask to remove it. Social engineering at its finest; most people won’t ask to remove a tip that’s already been added. I simply never returned; I refuse to support a business that favours tipping culture over higher minimum wages.
      - sneak 3y ago
        "If she doesn't like it, she should learn to type."
      - Reason077 3y ago
        This is standard practice in London. Virtually all table-service restaurants (but not pubs) add service charge to your bill, usually 12.5%. (15% sounds excessive, I don’t think I’ve seen that). You are not expected to tip in addition to the service charge, and by law, staff get paid 100% of any service charge and gratuities with no deductions.
aulin 3y ago
> Support damn Apple/Google Pay without requiring a email, phone number, login, or app! Wait, no idea how Apple works, but with Google Wallet in Europe you just tap your phone over the POS display and it goes straight to your credit card without any other step. Is that different in US?
- shortcake27 3y ago
  Nah, it’s the same, but the problem is that most QR menus force you to provide a phone number when ordering which is highly invasive and unnecessary. Just let me order and pay without collecting a bunch of PII.
- fowl2 3y ago
  Both can also be used on the web.
- numpad0 3y ago
  I suppose the payment goes through the app like it does for online purchases, not via the waiter handheld/POS terminal?
- lwansbrough 3y ago
  US has NFC although to a lesser extent than EU/Canada. But this is talking about on-device Apple/Google Pay, where you get prompted to use your stored payment with native UI. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_pay_on_the_web/ https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_pay_on_the_w...
tmvst 3y ago
The tips are forcefully suggested to offset the cost of the order processing service. These apps often take a 10%+ cut from every order. Which makes it hard to sell to a restaurant. If I pre-select 10% tip, most people will pay it making the app basically free and a no-brainer for the restaurant. I think it should be communicated better, but this is how I've seen it work.
peoplefromibiza 3y ago
you are assuming that the experience should be tailored on the US market most of those assumptions don't apply outside the US for example: tipping at the checkout, bill splitting, different timezones, different prices based on holidays and whatnot, are not a common requirement (or non existent) where I live. OTOH constantly changing menus are quite common, they are handled in the simplest way possible: you get a printed menu with the classics and then there are blackboards all around with the daily specials and/or the waiters will tell you what they are, before taking the order https://10619-2.s.cdn12.com/m0/Rome-Taverna-Romana-menu.jpg https://10619-2.s.cdn12.com/m0/Rome-Taverna-Romana-menu.jpg

by fowl2 3y ago

jeroenhd 3y ago

If only restaurants actually did that. All I've ever gotten from these are broken websites. Pictures are generic stock pictures (hiring a food photographer every time you change the menu is expensive), ordering is still done the old fashioned way as a means to get some overpriced drinks on your table as soon as possible, and "out of stock" is something you get told when you order because asking the kitchen to update the website as they cook is just unnecessary overhead. In theory this can be nice, but in practice restaurants seem to use these as a way to mess with prices on the fly or save on printing menus.

smelendez 3y ago
Ordering via code in the US would be a challenge I think. As you said, restaurants would lose the chance to offer drinks (and appetizers and specials), and servers might lose out on tips if there’s less customer interaction. Also, I think you’d want to charge people as they order to incentivize people to double check their orders, and that would make it harder for people to seamlessly treat each other or split shared items. In general I think people in the US have built a lot of little rituals and social customs around how restaurants work, for better or worse, and messing with those makes people uncomfortable, especially now after all the shifts around covid
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  > Ordering via code in the US would be a challenge I think. As you said, restaurants would lose the chance to offer drinks (and appetizers and specials), and servers might lose out on tips if there’s less customer interaction. It might be a hard transition for a restaurant that currently has full table service, OTOH, it would be an easier challenge for a fast-casual restaurant (the kind that does “order & pay at the counter, get a number, then get served at your table”, to go to tableside ordering with QR menus.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

Red Robin has terminals at each table that can take NFC payments. No need to enter an email address. Too bad they seem to be going out of business.

nichos 3y ago
Chilis does this too.

pier25 3y ago

Don't put your menu in fucking Facebook and force me download that app to see it.

matt-attack 3y ago

> without requiring an email, phone number, login That's precisely what Apple's App Clips are. I've used these on several restaurant receipts and they're amazing: https://developer.apple.com/app-clips/ https://developer.apple.com/app-clips/ You basically just scan the QR, checkout instantly with Apple Pay, and nothing to sign up for, and no horrible App to install.

usrusr 3y ago
What's the lowest rate you can do in-app purchases at in an app clip? And to put it in perspective with tips, how much of that goes to poor, underpaid Apple employees and how much goes to shareholders?
- Reason077 3y ago
  In-app purchase fees only apply to digital downloaded content, not “real world” purchases like restaurant meals. Apple do get a small cut of all Apple Pay transactions, reported to be 0.15% in the US. In Europe it will be substantially less.
  - lights0123 3y ago
    Which comes out of the bank's share, not the merchant's.
    - Reason077 3y ago
      I've seen some patterns which suggest that might not always be the case. That is, apps which support Apple Pay but nudge you towards entering card details instead by making it not-the-default or hiding it behind an extra layer of UI. For example, the Odeon cinemas app or Too Good To Go (food app). I always assumed it must be because the merchant pays a higher fee for Apple Pay transactions.
      - dwaite 3y ago
        > I always assumed it must be because the merchant pays a higher fee for Apple Pay transactions. I've never seen evidence of such, but there is certainly concern about becoming ever more reliant on credit card companies. So there can be an odd push to set up a first-party-account-based payment method (even if that winds up actually being backed by credit cards today). The behavior doesn't always make immediate sense - for example, Walmart going as far as to special-order payment terminals without NFC so that they can never accept contactless, but then having you pay with their app - with a credit card online transaction, which I believe is a higher rate. For some apps, it may be that they don't prioritize Apple Pay merely because they know only some browsers support it, and only some percentage of people on those browsers have set it up.

skohan 3y ago

The tipping function on electronic payments is a blight. I'm starting to see this regularly in Berlin, a place where tipping is not customary in many settings and just having this as a step you have to click through on the payment processor creates a level of social expectation.

pishpash 3y ago
Then have a thick skin and say no. That's the only way.
- skohan 3y ago
  Oh I do. But are teenagers going to have a thick skin for instance? It's fine for me to reject it for now, but if it becomes a social expectation it will be hard to say no without facing social consequences. This is how American cultural norms proliferate through technology.
  - shortcake27 3y ago
    Agreed. I visited a pizza place in London a few years back which automatically added a 15% tip to all orders. You had to ask to remove it. Social engineering at its finest; most people won’t ask to remove a tip that’s already been added. I simply never returned; I refuse to support a business that favours tipping culture over higher minimum wages.
    - sneak 3y ago
      "If she doesn't like it, she should learn to type."
    - Reason077 3y ago
      This is standard practice in London. Virtually all table-service restaurants (but not pubs) add service charge to your bill, usually 12.5%. (15% sounds excessive, I don’t think I’ve seen that). You are not expected to tip in addition to the service charge, and by law, staff get paid 100% of any service charge and gratuities with no deductions.

aulin 3y ago

> Support damn Apple/Google Pay without requiring a email, phone number, login, or app! Wait, no idea how Apple works, but with Google Wallet in Europe you just tap your phone over the POS display and it goes straight to your credit card without any other step. Is that different in US?

shortcake27 3y ago
Nah, it’s the same, but the problem is that most QR menus force you to provide a phone number when ordering which is highly invasive and unnecessary. Just let me order and pay without collecting a bunch of PII.
fowl2 3y ago
Both can also be used on the web.
numpad0 3y ago
I suppose the payment goes through the app like it does for online purchases, not via the waiter handheld/POS terminal?
lwansbrough 3y ago
US has NFC although to a lesser extent than EU/Canada. But this is talking about on-device Apple/Google Pay, where you get prompted to use your stored payment with native UI. https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_pay_on_the_web/ https://developer.apple.com/documentation/apple_pay_on_the_w...

tmvst 3y ago

The tips are forcefully suggested to offset the cost of the order processing service. These apps often take a 10%+ cut from every order. Which makes it hard to sell to a restaurant. If I pre-select 10% tip, most people will pay it making the app basically free and a no-brainer for the restaurant. I think it should be communicated better, but this is how I've seen it work.

peoplefromibiza 3y ago

you are assuming that the experience should be tailored on the US market most of those assumptions don't apply outside the US for example: tipping at the checkout, bill splitting, different timezones, different prices based on holidays and whatnot, are not a common requirement (or non existent) where I live. OTOH constantly changing menus are quite common, they are handled in the simplest way possible: you get a printed menu with the classics and then there are blackboards all around with the daily specials and/or the waiters will tell you what they are, before taking the order https://10619-2.s.cdn12.com/m0/Rome-Taverna-Romana-menu.jpg https://10619-2.s.cdn12.com/m0/Rome-Taverna-Romana-menu.jpg