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What blows my mind is that this aircraft was originally shown, formally, in 1964. 1.9.6.4. They had this level of engineering in 1964. Just imagine what shit

What blows my mind is that this aircraft was originally shown, formally, in 1964. 1.9.6.4. They had this level of engineering in 1964. Just imagine what shit goes on behind closed doors today. It really does sort of stagger you.

game_the0ry 3y ago
Given how bloated and wasteful our government is today, and how much the dept of defense blew on the F-35, I would be staggered if anything useful happens behind closed doors, besides corruption. I think we were able to accomplish a lot more in the past.
- Mistletoe 3y ago
  Powerpoint was created in 1987 and it was all downhill from there according to the military. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/04/why-the-military-declared-war-on-powerpoint/345802/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/04/why-the...
  - marcus_holmes 3y ago
    Thanks for the link, that's fascinating, and resonates so much. Do you know what they used instead?
  - katbyte 3y ago
    Indeed https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ-7U95LYTo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ-7U95LYTo
  - Psyladine 3y ago
    Not just for military: https://mcdreeamiemusings.com/blog/2019/4/13/gsux1h6bnt8lqjd7w2t2mtvfg81uhx https://mcdreeamiemusings.com/blog/2019/4/13/gsux1h6bnt8lqjd... Turns out trying to contain a complex system within a simple system of abstractions is a trendline towards disaster for any enterprise.
- bragr 3y ago
  >Given how bloated and wasteful our government is today, and how much the dept of defense blew on the F-35 You are listening to the fighter plane mafia too much. F-35 is a capable platform with a reasonable but large price tag for those capabilities. If you want to have a discussion of those capabilities, and whether those are needed, that's fine, but "big price tag == corruption" isn't a self supporting argument.
  - __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
    The majority of the engineers where I live work for, or have worked for, defense contractors. I've shut down a defense contractor recruiter once a week or more for the last several months. It's insanity. I've been a fly on the wall for so many conversations about the stuff they're accustomed to spending money on... Fighter plane mafia aside, I have no trouble believing that that money is going nowhere useful.
  - game_the0ry 3y ago
    > "big price tag == corruption" The DoD has failed 5 audits in a row. Take that however you want.
    - nradov 3y ago
      The DoD has had screwed up accounting systems for decades because Congress never appropriated funding to fix them. When the audits started a few years ago there was no expectation that they would pass. The goal is to identify the problems so that they can gradually be fixed without disrupting ongoing operations.
      - game_the0ry 3y ago
        See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_for_Sale:_The_War_Profiteers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_for_Sale:_The_War_Profite... Stop coping.
      - Loughla 3y ago
        Is your argument that DoD fails audits because they don't have enough money?
sizzzzlerz 3y ago
They had Kelly Johnson in 1964. He is, quite literally, the godfather of high-speed aircraft including the U-2 and the A-12/SR-71. He was not only a highly skilled engineer, he was a manager of the first order. A former colleague of mine had the privilege of working for Johnson early in his career and said that he'd never worked for a better boss. I believe it.
hindsightbias 3y ago
I never understand this belief. The A-12 was only secret 20 months before the announcement so it wasn’t any mystery for long. The idea that there is some supermagic is weird. Materials science of titanium is known. It was new then. Turboramjet theory was novel then, but I read about the internals in the late 70’s in Airpower magazine. Such a belief means there must be some unknown material or physics that has been embargoed, successfully, for decades. There’s no there there to be staggered by. Look at a half century of fusion physics or billions on multiple failed hypersonic research. Shit is hard. There are no shortcuts.

game_the0ry 3y ago

Given how bloated and wasteful our government is today, and how much the dept of defense blew on the F-35, I would be staggered if anything useful happens behind closed doors, besides corruption. I think we were able to accomplish a lot more in the past.

Mistletoe 3y ago
Powerpoint was created in 1987 and it was all downhill from there according to the military. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/04/why-the-military-declared-war-on-powerpoint/345802/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/04/why-the...
- marcus_holmes 3y ago
  Thanks for the link, that's fascinating, and resonates so much. Do you know what they used instead?
- katbyte 3y ago
  Indeed https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ-7U95LYTo https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ-7U95LYTo
- Psyladine 3y ago
  Not just for military: https://mcdreeamiemusings.com/blog/2019/4/13/gsux1h6bnt8lqjd7w2t2mtvfg81uhx https://mcdreeamiemusings.com/blog/2019/4/13/gsux1h6bnt8lqjd... Turns out trying to contain a complex system within a simple system of abstractions is a trendline towards disaster for any enterprise.
bragr 3y ago
>Given how bloated and wasteful our government is today, and how much the dept of defense blew on the F-35 You are listening to the fighter plane mafia too much. F-35 is a capable platform with a reasonable but large price tag for those capabilities. If you want to have a discussion of those capabilities, and whether those are needed, that's fine, but "big price tag == corruption" isn't a self supporting argument.
- __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
  The majority of the engineers where I live work for, or have worked for, defense contractors. I've shut down a defense contractor recruiter once a week or more for the last several months. It's insanity. I've been a fly on the wall for so many conversations about the stuff they're accustomed to spending money on... Fighter plane mafia aside, I have no trouble believing that that money is going nowhere useful.
- game_the0ry 3y ago
  > "big price tag == corruption" The DoD has failed 5 audits in a row. Take that however you want.
  - nradov 3y ago
    The DoD has had screwed up accounting systems for decades because Congress never appropriated funding to fix them. When the audits started a few years ago there was no expectation that they would pass. The goal is to identify the problems so that they can gradually be fixed without disrupting ongoing operations.
    - game_the0ry 3y ago
      See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_for_Sale:_The_War_Profiteers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_for_Sale:_The_War_Profite... Stop coping.
    - Loughla 3y ago
      Is your argument that DoD fails audits because they don't have enough money?

sizzzzlerz 3y ago

They had Kelly Johnson in 1964. He is, quite literally, the godfather of high-speed aircraft including the U-2 and the A-12/SR-71. He was not only a highly skilled engineer, he was a manager of the first order. A former colleague of mine had the privilege of working for Johnson early in his career and said that he'd never worked for a better boss. I believe it.

hindsightbias 3y ago

I never understand this belief. The A-12 was only secret 20 months before the announcement so it wasn’t any mystery for long. The idea that there is some supermagic is weird. Materials science of titanium is known. It was new then. Turboramjet theory was novel then, but I read about the internals in the late 70’s in Airpower magazine. Such a belief means there must be some unknown material or physics that has been embargoed, successfully, for decades. There’s no there there to be staggered by. Look at a half century of fusion physics or billions on multiple failed hypersonic research. Shit is hard. There are no shortcuts.