4 ms·

"San Franciscans spend more and get less from their police department than most major California cities" [0] From the report: > [SFPD have] by far the highest

"San Franciscans spend more and get less from their police department than most major California cities" [0] From the report: > [SFPD have] by far the highest costs per square mile patrolled of California’s six major-city police departments (Table 2). Meanwhile, the SFPD has the lowest rate and biggest decline in arrests per reported crime and crimes solved by police over the 2010-2020 decade, even as reported Part I felony offense rates rose (up 19%). > The SFPD’s low rate of clearing violent crimes compared to other police departments is especially worrisome. San Francisco’s reported rate of Part I “index” offenses (the four violent and three property felonies used as a standard measure of crime) is by far the highest of any major California city, yet SFPD arrests have dropped 41 percent by number and 60 percent per reported offense during this period. That crime rose and arrests fell while the SFPD’s budget and staffing expanded challenges conventional beliefs that more police mitigate crime. [0]: https://www.cjcj.org/media/import/documents/san_franciscans_spend_more_get_less_from_their_police_dept.pdf https://www.cjcj.org/media/import/documents/san_franciscans_...

ncr100 3y ago
Is that the reason why the SFPD needs access to the business camera network? Or does the SFPD need access to it because it is otherwise restricted from performing conventional policing acts? I thought that I heard political rhetoric, while living in SF for 20 years, about how the SFPD also is hamstrung, limited by local laws which prevent them from chasing certain suspects because they have a higher standard of that the alleged incident needs to meet before they can engage. It's not as simple as, "pay money get peace." At least that's what I observed.
- ok_dad 3y ago
  Cops will always complain about constraints on their policing and investigations, but those constraints are there in order to protect people's rights in the eyes of the law. I can't say for certain every single rule or law constraining cops are good or helpful to that goal, but based on my experiences with humans in the past, I don't trust very powerful authority figures that say they just need a little bit more power to do their jobs effectively. I think that quickly turns into corruption.
- omegaworks 3y ago
  SFPD blew up a bomb in front of the mayor's office in 1975 in order to assert their dominance over the democratically elected government of San Francisco. They exist only for themselves and their masters: the landed gentry of the city.
  - brickfaced 3y ago
    In 1975 Gerald Ford was President, "Star Wars" had just started filming, and the Soviet Union was four years out from invading Afghanistan. A lot has changed in the 48 years since then.
    - omegaworks 3y ago
      Has it? The data shows we've just been shoveling more and more money into the same corrupt organization: https://twitter.com/chrisarvinsf/status/1278525578530840577 https://twitter.com/chrisarvinsf/status/1278525578530840577
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
mike_d 3y ago
> Meanwhile, the SFPD has the lowest rate and biggest decline in arrests per reported crime SFPD (as well as other Bay Area law enforcement agencies) are hamstrung by the judicial system. From policies that effectively eliminate accountability (thefts below a dollar amount, individuals below an age, etc) to DAs cutting people loose as soon as they are booked so they never even see a day in court. Think of it this way: If you are a QA engineer working on a video game, and week after week 100% of your bugs get closed as WONTFIX. Are you going to continue finding 10 bugs a day, or will maybe 2 a day get you by? To be perfectly clear... I believe policing should be hard work. From an investigative perspective they should have to put in the hours and not just get a surveillance state handed to them. But I also recognize that once a potential perpetrator is located, we give them no good options for how to proceed and make our community safer.
- renewiltord 3y ago
  Interestingly, the previous DA was recalled and a pro-police DA was elected. The previous DA was in charge till Jul 2022. Here are the crime dashboards: https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim... One way to measure the success of this is to provide a bedding-in period to give the new DA a chance to settle her office and hire people, etc. and then compare. The UI there lets you select the period from Jan 1 to May 21 and compare year on year. This lets you see the change in crime. Given that the hypothesis is that DAs that cut people loose significantly affects crime, we can get some evidence for this by looking at that period against the previous year (thereby getting rid of seasonal effects like crime being higher in some months). We can get an idea of how much of the variation is natural by looking at that period for the last two years, since the previous DA was in charge from Jan 2020 to Jul 2022. I won't repeat the numbers here since the UI makes this really easy. Eager to hear about anyone else who would like this form of hypothesis-examine loop and what other testable hypotheses they can put forth.
  - omegaworks 3y ago
    The SFPD are used to doing nothing[1], and will continue to do so until they face actual consequences for their ineptitude. The recall of a DA that believed police should not be free to commit crimes and the appointment of a pro-police DA in his place only emboldened them. 1. https://sfist.com/2022/05/23/report-sfpd-refused-to-participate-in-quickly-burglary-ring-bust-boudin-had-to-rent-his-own-u-haul/ https://sfist.com/2022/05/23/report-sfpd-refused-to-particip...
s1artibartfast 3y ago
Worth noting the definition of Part I felony “index” offenses: murder, rape, aggravated assault, robbery, burglary, larceny-theft, and motor vehicle theft. The offenses reported are up 28% in 10 years, and case clearance is down -33%
cameldrv 3y ago
A lot of the problem here goes back to housing costs. Hiring police is extremely expensive, but even at their high salaries, SF can't fill its hiring quota. That also means that they're forced to hire marginal officers that they'd otherwise pass on in a competitive hiring environment. The biggest reason that they can't hire is that the house you can buy in SF on even a high police officer's salary is much worse than what you can get elsewhere. Due to geography, it's also hard to even commute from a much lower cost area. If the Bay Area simply built more housing, so many of these problems would be reduced.

ncr100 3y ago

Is that the reason why the SFPD needs access to the business camera network? Or does the SFPD need access to it because it is otherwise restricted from performing conventional policing acts? I thought that I heard political rhetoric, while living in SF for 20 years, about how the SFPD also is hamstrung, limited by local laws which prevent them from chasing certain suspects because they have a higher standard of that the alleged incident needs to meet before they can engage. It's not as simple as, "pay money get peace." At least that's what I observed.

ok_dad 3y ago
Cops will always complain about constraints on their policing and investigations, but those constraints are there in order to protect people's rights in the eyes of the law. I can't say for certain every single rule or law constraining cops are good or helpful to that goal, but based on my experiences with humans in the past, I don't trust very powerful authority figures that say they just need a little bit more power to do their jobs effectively. I think that quickly turns into corruption.
omegaworks 3y ago
SFPD blew up a bomb in front of the mayor's office in 1975 in order to assert their dominance over the democratically elected government of San Francisco. They exist only for themselves and their masters: the landed gentry of the city.
- brickfaced 3y ago
  In 1975 Gerald Ford was President, "Star Wars" had just started filming, and the Soviet Union was four years out from invading Afghanistan. A lot has changed in the 48 years since then.
  - omegaworks 3y ago
    Has it? The data shows we've just been shoveling more and more money into the same corrupt organization: https://twitter.com/chrisarvinsf/status/1278525578530840577 https://twitter.com/chrisarvinsf/status/1278525578530840577
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]

mike_d 3y ago

> Meanwhile, the SFPD has the lowest rate and biggest decline in arrests per reported crime SFPD (as well as other Bay Area law enforcement agencies) are hamstrung by the judicial system. From policies that effectively eliminate accountability (thefts below a dollar amount, individuals below an age, etc) to DAs cutting people loose as soon as they are booked so they never even see a day in court. Think of it this way: If you are a QA engineer working on a video game, and week after week 100% of your bugs get closed as WONTFIX. Are you going to continue finding 10 bugs a day, or will maybe 2 a day get you by? To be perfectly clear... I believe policing should be hard work. From an investigative perspective they should have to put in the hours and not just get a surveillance state handed to them. But I also recognize that once a potential perpetrator is located, we give them no good options for how to proceed and make our community safer.

renewiltord 3y ago
Interestingly, the previous DA was recalled and a pro-police DA was elected. The previous DA was in charge till Jul 2022. Here are the crime dashboards: https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crime-dashboard https://www.sanfranciscopolice.org/stay-safe/crime-data/crim... One way to measure the success of this is to provide a bedding-in period to give the new DA a chance to settle her office and hire people, etc. and then compare. The UI there lets you select the period from Jan 1 to May 21 and compare year on year. This lets you see the change in crime. Given that the hypothesis is that DAs that cut people loose significantly affects crime, we can get some evidence for this by looking at that period against the previous year (thereby getting rid of seasonal effects like crime being higher in some months). We can get an idea of how much of the variation is natural by looking at that period for the last two years, since the previous DA was in charge from Jan 2020 to Jul 2022. I won't repeat the numbers here since the UI makes this really easy. Eager to hear about anyone else who would like this form of hypothesis-examine loop and what other testable hypotheses they can put forth.
- omegaworks 3y ago
  The SFPD are used to doing nothing[1], and will continue to do so until they face actual consequences for their ineptitude. The recall of a DA that believed police should not be free to commit crimes and the appointment of a pro-police DA in his place only emboldened them. 1. https://sfist.com/2022/05/23/report-sfpd-refused-to-participate-in-quickly-burglary-ring-bust-boudin-had-to-rent-his-own-u-haul/ https://sfist.com/2022/05/23/report-sfpd-refused-to-particip...

s1artibartfast 3y ago

Worth noting the definition of Part I felony “index” offenses: murder, rape, aggravated assault, robbery, burglary, larceny-theft, and motor vehicle theft. The offenses reported are up 28% in 10 years, and case clearance is down -33%

cameldrv 3y ago

A lot of the problem here goes back to housing costs. Hiring police is extremely expensive, but even at their high salaries, SF can't fill its hiring quota. That also means that they're forced to hire marginal officers that they'd otherwise pass on in a competitive hiring environment. The biggest reason that they can't hire is that the house you can buy in SF on even a high police officer's salary is much worse than what you can get elsewhere. Due to geography, it's also hard to even commute from a much lower cost area. If the Bay Area simply built more housing, so many of these problems would be reduced.