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That's my main argument when people say: "What they are doing is exactly the same what we did in Iraq/Afghanistan" etc. Yes, it might be true. The big differen

by baxtr 3y ago

That's my main argument when people say: "What they are doing is exactly the same what we did in Iraq/Afghanistan" etc. Yes, it might be true. The big difference: In the West you can actually go out on the street and protest against the acts of your government.

lifewallet_dev 3y ago
Unless you're in florida and you get run over by a car: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/04/ron-desantis-anti-riot-bill https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/04/ron-desantis-anti-ri... There are protest everywhere, west or east, don't be ignorant.
ajuc 3y ago
There's a lot of differences. For example, NATO doesn't force countries to join, and doesn't invade countries if they want to leave or join another alliance. See France. In fact - previous instance of russian CIS - Warsaw Pact - was unique among military alliances in the fact that it only invaded its members (Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Afghanistan). It was a prison not a military alliance. And in current CIS Russia sent army to Belarus to pacify million-strong protests against faked elections in 2020. And recently did the same in Kazakhstan. The west isn't innocent. But it is infinitely better than the authoritarian alternative China, Russia, Iran and North Korea offer.
- skissane 3y ago
  > For example, NATO doesn't force countries to join, and doesn't invade countries if they want to leave or join another alliance. See France. France never actually left NATO the organisation – they just withdrew from NATO's military command structure (1966), only to later rejoin it (2009). No country has ever sought to leave NATO the organisation. There is a clear procedure for doing so (Article 13), but no member has ever invoked it. Interestingly, Article 13 actually says that prior to 1969, none of the members are allowed to leave. I doubt the US would have invaded any of them if they'd broken that clause though.
- hulitu 3y ago
  > NATO doesn't force countries to join NATO doesn't, US does. But of course it "doesn't force countries". It just "happenes" after a colour revolution.
  - ajuc 3y ago
    > It just "happenes" after a colour revolution. Yeah right, Ukrainians didn't wanted to move west, that's why they defend against fucking Russia for over a year. All paid actors I'm sure.
- baxtr 3y ago
  That’s my point. I think the same. Yet, the main argument is: in the West you can protest. Everything else can be debated endlessly. This one not.
throwaway6734 3y ago
They're fundamentally different wars in their motivation as well. The US invaded foolishly invaded Iraq and Afghanistan with the ultimate end goal of destroying evil power structures Sadam/Taliban and trying to establish liberal institutions. No one was trying to destroy local cultures or languages. Russia's invasion of Ukraine, just like WW2 Germany's, has the end goal of genociding Ukrainian culture and subjugating the Ukrainian people
- haldujai 3y ago
  Ah yes, the ultimate goal of the Iraq war was to liberate the Iraqi citizens from the evil Baathist regime stockpiling WMDs and totally not protecting American oil interests and destabilizing a competitor to our friends in the Gulf.
bombolo 3y ago
> In the West you can actually go out on the street and protest against the acts of your government. You can protest. But you get arrested. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/just-stop-oil-coronation-met-police-arrests-b2340465.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/just-stop-oi...

by baxtr 3y ago

lifewallet_dev 3y ago

Unless you're in florida and you get run over by a car: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/04/ron-desantis-anti-riot-bill https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021/04/ron-desantis-anti-ri... There are protest everywhere, west or east, don't be ignorant.

ajuc 3y ago

There's a lot of differences. For example, NATO doesn't force countries to join, and doesn't invade countries if they want to leave or join another alliance. See France. In fact - previous instance of russian CIS - Warsaw Pact - was unique among military alliances in the fact that it only invaded its members (Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Afghanistan). It was a prison not a military alliance. And in current CIS Russia sent army to Belarus to pacify million-strong protests against faked elections in 2020. And recently did the same in Kazakhstan. The west isn't innocent. But it is infinitely better than the authoritarian alternative China, Russia, Iran and North Korea offer.

skissane 3y ago
> For example, NATO doesn't force countries to join, and doesn't invade countries if they want to leave or join another alliance. See France. France never actually left NATO the organisation – they just withdrew from NATO's military command structure (1966), only to later rejoin it (2009). No country has ever sought to leave NATO the organisation. There is a clear procedure for doing so (Article 13), but no member has ever invoked it. Interestingly, Article 13 actually says that prior to 1969, none of the members are allowed to leave. I doubt the US would have invaded any of them if they'd broken that clause though.
hulitu 3y ago
> NATO doesn't force countries to join NATO doesn't, US does. But of course it "doesn't force countries". It just "happenes" after a colour revolution.
- ajuc 3y ago
  > It just "happenes" after a colour revolution. Yeah right, Ukrainians didn't wanted to move west, that's why they defend against fucking Russia for over a year. All paid actors I'm sure.
baxtr 3y ago
That’s my point. I think the same. Yet, the main argument is: in the West you can protest. Everything else can be debated endlessly. This one not.

throwaway6734 3y ago

They're fundamentally different wars in their motivation as well. The US invaded foolishly invaded Iraq and Afghanistan with the ultimate end goal of destroying evil power structures Sadam/Taliban and trying to establish liberal institutions. No one was trying to destroy local cultures or languages. Russia's invasion of Ukraine, just like WW2 Germany's, has the end goal of genociding Ukrainian culture and subjugating the Ukrainian people

haldujai 3y ago
Ah yes, the ultimate goal of the Iraq war was to liberate the Iraqi citizens from the evil Baathist regime stockpiling WMDs and totally not protecting American oil interests and destabilizing a competitor to our friends in the Gulf.

bombolo 3y ago

> In the West you can actually go out on the street and protest against the acts of your government. You can protest. But you get arrested. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/just-stop-oil-coronation-met-police-arrests-b2340465.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/just-stop-oi...