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>Over the past four years, Gajavelli built his real-estate empire using funds from dozens of small investors who wanted a chance to earn a landlord’s riches wit

by ausbah 3y ago

>Over the past four years, Gajavelli built his real-estate empire using funds from dozens of small investors who wanted a chance to earn a landlord’s riches without any of the work. there are few "professions" lower than landlord in my book. they induce artificial shortages in already scarce housing supplies, implement regulatory capture in zoning & rental laws, skirt existing regulations in the quality & livability of their units, require hundreds to thousands of dollars in "application fees" and other upfront charges, help keep home ownership rates down, and more all while playing off rent seeking behavior as some sort of "better than you" game

dabluecaboose 3y ago
>there are few "professions" lower than landlord in my book. Spoken like the classic redditor who had no idea the kind of work goes into being a landlord. Maybe you should consider how much work goes into being an average landlord and avoid categorizing all property owners as predatory capitalists. Or you could continue lumping the 95% in with the 5% for internet points, if that kind of thing fits you better.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- denkmoon 3y ago
  Oh yeah, I see the results of my landlord's hard work every day.
  - welshwelsh 3y ago
    I'm sure you do. If it wasn't for your landlord, your apartment wouldn't be available for rent
    - denkmoon 3y ago
      lmao.
    - amw 3y ago
      What horror that it might be on the market to be bought as an owner-occupied residence instead. When people justify landlords as providing housing, it always seems to be without consideration to the particular financing/market circumstances that make "buying a house" something that is difficult for a lot of people these days, a thing that was not true not even that long ago (and did not become true due to simply neutral market fluctuations).
  - dendriti 3y ago
    Yes, my tenants certainly do. Thanks for the support.
- itsanaccount 3y ago
  I expect when the system makes the screws tight enough, of ever increasing rent costs and food prices, with an entire army of executives dedicated to keeping wages low, in a country of massive gun ownership, something will snap and well find out exactly what the distribution of predatory capitalists vs responsible property owners is.
- ausbah 3y ago
  landlords don't work they extract rent. nothing of value is provided, only taken from those who do work bc they have to have a roof over their heads. the maintenance and other work that goes into a property is work separate from being a landlord. any tenant can do maintenance themselves or contract it out, I don't need a landlord for that
WirelessGigabit 3y ago
Somewhere on Reddit there was a landlord who rented to a couple. 2bd. Couple broke up before moving in. Landlord stated he'd expect one of the remaining people to find a roommate. How miserable must you be that you literally force random people to live together. Just rip up the contract.
- 000ooo000 3y ago
  Therein lies the common, two-faced landlord. "It's just business" when they are exercising what they view as their rights as a landlord; "Won't somebody think of us poor, hardworking, regular people?" the moment things turn on them.
galleywest200 3y ago
I think its important to distinguish the types of landlords. I rent my house, and the owner is just an old couple across the street. Those two are not part of the problem. Now the property management company doing the lease paperwork for the couple, now they are part of the problem.
- dragonwriter 3y ago
  If the landlord wasn’t part of the problem, they wouldn’t wouldn’t be delegating management to a management firm that is (there may or may not be management firms that aren’t, but there are definitely landlords that manage properties themselves that aren’t.)
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  your landlord across the street isnt the strongest counterargument actually those are the local forces gambling on the highest possible rent - which they could have done anytime whether richer people were in town or not - , and attention should be directed at them to alleviate price pressures
  - noduerme 3y ago
    >> attention should be directed at them to alleviate price pressures Why is that the responsibility of small landlords who rent out a spare bedroom or second house? That's like saying it should be on independent gas stations to alleviate high oil prices.
    - yieldcrv 3y ago
      Its not the responsibility, its an observation that they are more susceptible to peer pressure while having been largely overlooked as a contributor to housing price pressure
      - noduerme 3y ago
        >> more susceptible to peer pressure This implies that one should pressure people to the degree that you can pressure them, rather than to the degree that they're in the wrong. Which is pretty unjust.
seanmcdirmid 3y ago
I don’t have the nerve to become a landlord. It’s just finically risky, can be lots of work, and the payoff…is mostly hoping property prices rise. I hear horror stories about deadbeat tenants who manage to destroy a house before they are evicted.
- 000ooo000 3y ago
  I have a hard time feeling sorry for landlords in these scenarios. Welcome to the cold world of business. Sadly, your property being damaged is simply a risk of that type of business, and just like I wouldn't be sympathetic to an excavator hire company whose digger comes back in need of repair, I don't think landlords deserve any sympathy either.
  - seanmcdirmid 3y ago
    It’s just another risky job that involves lots of headaches, but something deserving in sympathy. All of those costs exist for reasons, you don’t have to like them, but we shouldn’t pretend that something being a landlord is like magicking money away from everyone else, it isn’t.
gigatexal 3y ago
Single unit landlord here. There are slumlords who do the bare minimum and then there are the good ones that try to do everything they can to make the experience enjoyable. I fix things asap, I am super understandable about late rent, I am the landlord I would want if I was renting from me. I am living abroad and wanted to keep my home in case we returned. Also home purchasing is out of the question for most folks and renting offers a low up front cost to getting into a home. Let’s not paint all landlords with the same brush. Some are hardened speculators and some of us are just middle-class folks mom and pops.
- Ferret7446 3y ago
  And the same goes for rentees, especially with some of the covid exceptions that were put into place.
bruce511 3y ago
All of what you say is true, for some landlords. Fortunately (around the world) its not true for many of them. That said the primary focus on money in the US makes the situation there much worse. Western society also sees home-ownershop as a primary "good thing", and positions home ownership as a goal everyone should aspire to. In truth, a large segment of the population is better served by renting. Those that move area frequently. Those who don't have sufficient capital or income to pay for such a large asset. Those who can't get a mortgage. Those who aren't ready to make a 30 year commitment to a location. Elder folk who don't want to die with a large asset, but would rather cash-out their house and actually spend that capital. Since most Western governments do not provide rental housing (or are slowly reducing housing stocks) - it falls to the private sector (lumped together as landlords) to provide you need. Incidentally shortages are not the fault of landlords, but of a population growing faster than housing supply. Supply is mostly constrained directly or indirectly, by existing home owners where the primary reason against any change us "preservation of house prices in our neighbourhood". This is driven by home-owners who have been persuaded that their house is an "investment". So you may not like landlords, and like any profession there are plenty of bad examples to hate, but the removal of rent completely as a housing option would be disastrous to a huge segment of society.
- IndoorPatio 3y ago
  No one is suggesting the removal of rent. The solution for a higher quality of life for all involved is public housing. This is a problem that Vienna has solved. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/23/magazine/vienna-social-housing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/23/magazine/vienna-social-ho...
  - bruce511 3y ago
    I agree that public housing is a very good solution. However most countries have not succeeded I providing this and until that happens villifying private landlords is not helpful. By all means advocate for social housing, an general easing of restrictions to new housing development. I'm right behind you in that.
Ferret7446 3y ago
"Walk a mile in someone else's shoes" I suggest you try being a landlord before proclaiming judgement, even as a thought experiment. Find a property you might purchase (with a mortgage) to rent out. Calculate the cost/liability. Look up the renting laws in your area. Look up the market price for renting. Look up maintenance costs and schedules. Estimate time spent interviewing, handling paperwork and accounting, scheduling maintenance. Calculate net profit.
- amw 3y ago
  It is not useful to individualize this. Even if you could make a solid argument that being a landlord might sometimes take more effort than working a job does for someone else to pay your mortgage for you, corporations holding many properties at once (with just a couple of companies holding up to 5% of the rental stock) are going to have a bigger economic impact on the market, and the small-time landlord's experience isn't really relevant to that, vis effort, risk, or graciousness to their lessees.

by ausbah 3y ago

dabluecaboose 3y ago

>there are few "professions" lower than landlord in my book. Spoken like the classic redditor who had no idea the kind of work goes into being a landlord. Maybe you should consider how much work goes into being an average landlord and avoid categorizing all property owners as predatory capitalists. Or you could continue lumping the 95% in with the 5% for internet points, if that kind of thing fits you better.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
denkmoon 3y ago
Oh yeah, I see the results of my landlord's hard work every day.
- welshwelsh 3y ago
  I'm sure you do. If it wasn't for your landlord, your apartment wouldn't be available for rent
  - denkmoon 3y ago
    lmao.
  - amw 3y ago
    What horror that it might be on the market to be bought as an owner-occupied residence instead. When people justify landlords as providing housing, it always seems to be without consideration to the particular financing/market circumstances that make "buying a house" something that is difficult for a lot of people these days, a thing that was not true not even that long ago (and did not become true due to simply neutral market fluctuations).
- dendriti 3y ago
  Yes, my tenants certainly do. Thanks for the support.
itsanaccount 3y ago
I expect when the system makes the screws tight enough, of ever increasing rent costs and food prices, with an entire army of executives dedicated to keeping wages low, in a country of massive gun ownership, something will snap and well find out exactly what the distribution of predatory capitalists vs responsible property owners is.
ausbah 3y ago
landlords don't work they extract rent. nothing of value is provided, only taken from those who do work bc they have to have a roof over their heads. the maintenance and other work that goes into a property is work separate from being a landlord. any tenant can do maintenance themselves or contract it out, I don't need a landlord for that

WirelessGigabit 3y ago

Somewhere on Reddit there was a landlord who rented to a couple. 2bd. Couple broke up before moving in. Landlord stated he'd expect one of the remaining people to find a roommate. How miserable must you be that you literally force random people to live together. Just rip up the contract.

000ooo000 3y ago
Therein lies the common, two-faced landlord. "It's just business" when they are exercising what they view as their rights as a landlord; "Won't somebody think of us poor, hardworking, regular people?" the moment things turn on them.

galleywest200 3y ago

I think its important to distinguish the types of landlords. I rent my house, and the owner is just an old couple across the street. Those two are not part of the problem. Now the property management company doing the lease paperwork for the couple, now they are part of the problem.

dragonwriter 3y ago
If the landlord wasn’t part of the problem, they wouldn’t wouldn’t be delegating management to a management firm that is (there may or may not be management firms that aren’t, but there are definitely landlords that manage properties themselves that aren’t.)
yieldcrv 3y ago
your landlord across the street isnt the strongest counterargument actually those are the local forces gambling on the highest possible rent - which they could have done anytime whether richer people were in town or not - , and attention should be directed at them to alleviate price pressures
- noduerme 3y ago
  >> attention should be directed at them to alleviate price pressures Why is that the responsibility of small landlords who rent out a spare bedroom or second house? That's like saying it should be on independent gas stations to alleviate high oil prices.
  - yieldcrv 3y ago
    Its not the responsibility, its an observation that they are more susceptible to peer pressure while having been largely overlooked as a contributor to housing price pressure
    - noduerme 3y ago
      >> more susceptible to peer pressure This implies that one should pressure people to the degree that you can pressure them, rather than to the degree that they're in the wrong. Which is pretty unjust.

seanmcdirmid 3y ago

I don’t have the nerve to become a landlord. It’s just finically risky, can be lots of work, and the payoff…is mostly hoping property prices rise. I hear horror stories about deadbeat tenants who manage to destroy a house before they are evicted.

000ooo000 3y ago
I have a hard time feeling sorry for landlords in these scenarios. Welcome to the cold world of business. Sadly, your property being damaged is simply a risk of that type of business, and just like I wouldn't be sympathetic to an excavator hire company whose digger comes back in need of repair, I don't think landlords deserve any sympathy either.
- seanmcdirmid 3y ago
  It’s just another risky job that involves lots of headaches, but something deserving in sympathy. All of those costs exist for reasons, you don’t have to like them, but we shouldn’t pretend that something being a landlord is like magicking money away from everyone else, it isn’t.

gigatexal 3y ago

Single unit landlord here. There are slumlords who do the bare minimum and then there are the good ones that try to do everything they can to make the experience enjoyable. I fix things asap, I am super understandable about late rent, I am the landlord I would want if I was renting from me. I am living abroad and wanted to keep my home in case we returned. Also home purchasing is out of the question for most folks and renting offers a low up front cost to getting into a home. Let’s not paint all landlords with the same brush. Some are hardened speculators and some of us are just middle-class folks mom and pops.

Ferret7446 3y ago
And the same goes for rentees, especially with some of the covid exceptions that were put into place.

bruce511 3y ago

All of what you say is true, for some landlords. Fortunately (around the world) its not true for many of them. That said the primary focus on money in the US makes the situation there much worse. Western society also sees home-ownershop as a primary "good thing", and positions home ownership as a goal everyone should aspire to. In truth, a large segment of the population is better served by renting. Those that move area frequently. Those who don't have sufficient capital or income to pay for such a large asset. Those who can't get a mortgage. Those who aren't ready to make a 30 year commitment to a location. Elder folk who don't want to die with a large asset, but would rather cash-out their house and actually spend that capital. Since most Western governments do not provide rental housing (or are slowly reducing housing stocks) - it falls to the private sector (lumped together as landlords) to provide you need. Incidentally shortages are not the fault of landlords, but of a population growing faster than housing supply. Supply is mostly constrained directly or indirectly, by existing home owners where the primary reason against any change us "preservation of house prices in our neighbourhood". This is driven by home-owners who have been persuaded that their house is an "investment". So you may not like landlords, and like any profession there are plenty of bad examples to hate, but the removal of rent completely as a housing option would be disastrous to a huge segment of society.

IndoorPatio 3y ago
No one is suggesting the removal of rent. The solution for a higher quality of life for all involved is public housing. This is a problem that Vienna has solved. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/23/magazine/vienna-social-housing.html https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/23/magazine/vienna-social-ho...
- bruce511 3y ago
  I agree that public housing is a very good solution. However most countries have not succeeded I providing this and until that happens villifying private landlords is not helpful. By all means advocate for social housing, an general easing of restrictions to new housing development. I'm right behind you in that.

Ferret7446 3y ago

"Walk a mile in someone else's shoes" I suggest you try being a landlord before proclaiming judgement, even as a thought experiment. Find a property you might purchase (with a mortgage) to rent out. Calculate the cost/liability. Look up the renting laws in your area. Look up the market price for renting. Look up maintenance costs and schedules. Estimate time spent interviewing, handling paperwork and accounting, scheduling maintenance. Calculate net profit.

amw 3y ago
It is not useful to individualize this. Even if you could make a solid argument that being a landlord might sometimes take more effort than working a job does for someone else to pay your mortgage for you, corporations holding many properties at once (with just a couple of companies holding up to 5% of the rental stock) are going to have a bigger economic impact on the market, and the small-time landlord's experience isn't really relevant to that, vis effort, risk, or graciousness to their lessees.