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Pure speculation, but my guess is that he’s invested in the commercial real estate market and hoping for a turnaround. I don’t think it’s some profound or insan
by LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
Pure speculation, but my guess is that he’s invested in the commercial real estate market and hoping for a turnaround. I don’t think it’s some profound or insane ideology he has, I think he’s just trying to prop up CRE like he does with crypto.
He’s famous for buying distressed commercial properties and for gaslighting, it just makes sense and the whole moral argument was a great way to get people talking about it.
- 908B64B197 3y agoHe's hedging his bets by not paying rent for Twitter's offices.
- the_only_law 3y agoMaybe someone can help me understand this. If I were to refuse to pay my rent. My landlord would post an eviction notice and if I refused to comply, I would likely be arrested or forcibly removed. Why can’t the landlord “evict” twitter? Does the process look significantly different for commercial real estate? Does twitter provide value to the landlord in some form other than rent? Maybe they’re afraid of bad PR?
- LapsangGuzzler 3y agoIt would probably cost a lot more to evict Twitter and find a new commercial tenant than it does to compel them to pay rent. The reason this wouldn’t apply to you is that residential real estate vacancies are usually easy to fill, especially nowadays.
- thaumasiotes 3y ago> The reason this wouldn’t apply to you That remains to be established. People often have no idea what renter protections are like. If he's in California, he might find that he can't be evicted without the landlord going through a multi-year process.
- seattle_spring 3y agoTake years, or even a year, is very much hyperbole, even for SF. Particularly when dealing with non-paying tenants. This may have been different during eviction moratoriums at the height of the pandemic.
- sjburt 3y agoThe eviction moratorium is still active in SF, Oakland and Berkeley.
- notho 3y ago[dead]
- ballenf 3y agoHaving run a small business for some years, refusal to pay an uncontested debt is (very unfortunately) a routine part of business and negotiation. It's a very ugly part, but creates a bit of a prisoner's dilemma where you wonder if you're the only sucker paying debts on time and in full.
- CamperBob2 3y agoIt's just another instance of the old saying about banks. If you owe your landlord $1000, you have a problem. If you owe your landlord $10,000,000...
- adverbly 3y agoI don't think its a CRE angle. He has multiple companies built around transportation. Remote work => less demand for transportation.
- LapsangGuzzler 3y agoThere’s no way that someone as wealthy as he doesn’t own at least some commercial property. Even if not himself, Tesla alone owns billions in CRE, not to mention his other companies. Commercial properties are some of the most valuable assets a company owns, of course the guy wants to keep CRE values up. Just because he owns some transportation companies doesn’t mean he’s allergic to CRE, that’s kinda naive. That’s like arguing guys at his level don’t donate to both political parties when they clearly do. Because by doing that, you get to own the whole system, not just a piece.
- otterley 3y agoCounterpoint: Berkshire Hathaway owns practically no commercial real estate assets.
- LapsangGuzzler 3y agoBut they definitely own a ton of stock in companies that own real estate. 10 percent of their portfolio is in Bank of America, which has a huge commercial real estate lending portfolio. Berkshire doesn’t need to own CRE directly when they own companies that do CRE. Commercial real estate is foundational in corporate finance. I guess I just don’t this argument that these huge companies aren’t somehow exposed. I guarantee you that if the CRE market tanks, Berkshire is gonna feel it too.
- ydlr 3y agohttps://bhhspremiercre.com/ https://bhhspremiercre.com/
- otterley 3y agoThat's a brokerage, not a holding company.
- JustLurking2022 3y agoLess commuting = fewer miles on your car = less frequent need to buy a new one.
- InitialLastName 3y agoIt also edges your car mileage from the circumstance where electric cars excel (daily medium distance trips ending at home every day to charge) towards less advantageous use (long multi-day trips).
- ed25519FUUU 3y agoAlso he’s welcome to have his opinions.
- operatingthetan 3y ago>Pure speculation, but my guess is that he’s invested in the commercial real estate market and hoping for a turnaround. I don’t think it’s some profound or insane ideology he has, I think he’s just trying to prop up CRE like he does with crypto. We should assume any public statements on morality from powerful people out of the blue are motivated by a secondary factor.
- plagiarist 3y agoYou don't even need that rule of thumb here. I believe Elon's very public tantrums on and regarding Twitter have shown that he lacks even basic integrity. The gall that he would discuss what is or is not moral from that position.
- operatingthetan 3y agoIt must be some form of gaslighting for an obviously amoral person to make public announcements of moral platitudes. Why people agree with them is beyond me, is there perverse pleasure in being deeply wrong?
- coliveira 3y agoBeing a billionaire in America transforms the person in some kind of super hero. People are mentally incapable to disagree with them, even on basic topics that everyone knows are wrong. The media exploits this every day.
- wombatpm 3y agoElon has shown us all how to make a small fortune in social media. It’s not his fault that we don’t have 40 billion to burn buying a 20 billion business with a 13 billion mortgage
- opmelogy 3y ago> He’s famous...for gaslighting This is an excellent way to put it and a great observation. I was never able to put my finger on it even though the BS meter was off the charts. Here it is. Thanks.
- ted_bunny 3y agoWhat makes it gaslighting as opposed to garden variety bullshit?
- BLKNSLVR 3y agoBy adding "morally" it enforces questioning one's own principles in support of the thing. Without "morally" it's dismissable nonsense (ie. bullshit). With "morally" it requires pulling at strands that make up our world-view. It's not necessarily a bad thing to question one's world-view on occasion, but causing that level of fundamental questioning, for a comment that would otherwise be easily dismissable, is gaslighting. (by my opinion of the definition)
- opmelogy 3y agoGood answer.
- dcow 3y agoPersonally I think the repeated part of the gaslighting definition is really important (and the implication that the repetition is conducted abusively). Otherwise you'd argue that any dialog that causes one to question one's world-view is gaslighting, and that's simply not true under the colloquial use of the term. If I make a statement that killing is not justifiable even in self defense, and that causes you, who believes that killing is justified as a measure of self defense, to question your worldview, I'm not gaslighting you into believing me, I'm simply sharing a viewpoint. If I repeatedly show you propaganda where innocent people regularly die because they are not allowed to defend themselves, and where people who do are punished, perhaps by being put in mental hospitals, etc. then I'm gaslighting you. Generally gaslighting refers to using lies and other statements that do not reflect reality, repeatedly, to manipulate someone into a false worldview. I actually think it's dangerous to throw gaslighting as a term around so casually. Gaslighting, very specifically, means to repeatedly question someone's worldview, while ignoring their anecdotal experience, and that of general reality assuming they roughly align, in order to emotionally abuse them into submission or indoctrination. It's pretty serious and ugly. I know it's fun on HN to throw the term around, but Elon (regardless of how much you dislike him, and how many people follow him) arguing that WFH is morally wrong, is not an instance of Musk gaslighting the public at large. Not even really by a fun shot.
- quicklime 3y agoBut he's not the only business leader using heavy-handed techniques to get workers back in the office. I think it's likely that he genuinely believes that working from the office is better - he's not playing 4d chess. The morality argument is just him rationalizing what he already believes. This isn't the "first principles" thinking that he demands from others.
- smeej 3y agoMy brother calls return-to-office policies "panicking, in Boomer." Tech company profits are declining. Management (especially Boomer management) needs to be seen as "doing something" or they're the ones on the chopping block. So they force everybody back into the office so they can be seen to be managing. God forbid the cause of declining profits be things like national monetary policy or years of short-term decision-making that propped profits up to unsustainable highs. No. It must be that Andy works from home. Better bring everybody in to keep an eye on them (to read their faces and find out for sure just how much shit they'll take from you before they quit).
- danjac 3y agoI doubt there are that many Boomers left in tech management - almost all that age cohort are in retirement or semi-retired, they're enjoying their Saga cruises and golf courses (or if they're unlucky, their Walmart greeter jobs). I suspect there are managers panicking about losing relevance in a post-office world, but those will be middle-managers, not CEOs. Much of the panic is from owners of commercial real estate and their flying monkeys in the media who are seeing empty office blocks and declining property values and rents. As for Musk, who knows. He's in his own very weird bubble of long-terminism or cosmism or whatever it is he believes in. Maybe he thinks if everyone works from home it will lead to a drop in birth rates or decline in Western society or something.
- smeej 3y agoI'm specifically talking about the middle managers. They're the ones who need to be seen "doing things," so when it's time to surface any ideas for how to fix the problem, especially when it's their butts on the line, this is what comes out. But I also refer to the boards and investors. We'd love to think it's all a young person's VC game, but behind all that money is still, more often than not, someone who panics in Boomer.
- jredwards 3y agoI don't think you have to get that creative. The man sells cars. He's invested in people commuting.
- notyourwork 3y ago[flagged]
- p1esk 3y agoAsshole - yes, ignorant- no.
- notyourwork 3y agoThis type of stuff would suggest otherwise. https://www.dailyo.in/technology/elon-musk-fired-a-twitter-employee-on-twitter-wait-till-you-hear-what-his-fault-was-37898 https://www.dailyo.in/technology/elon-musk-fired-a-twitter-e...
- nkozyra 3y agoCars are used for more than commuting.
- jredwards 3y agoBut they are used for commuting.
- kqr 3y agoThey are, but at least in my city, comparing traffic at rush hour (a.k.a. commuting hour) to other times of the day makes it fairly clear commuting is one of the primary use cases.
- ryanbrunner 3y agoIf a couple (particularly in a city) doesn't commute, they are way way more likely to consider owning one car vs. two.
- geodel 3y ago> He’s famous for buying distressed commercial properties and for gaslighting In his case, it could be solar lighting or else he is not about renewables as he claim to be :)