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I always knew Broadcom as "that company that makes WiFi+BT chipsets that are a pain to use under Linux", vs Qualcomm "the company that dominates the Android ARM

I always knew Broadcom as "that company that makes WiFi+BT chipsets that are a pain to use under Linux", vs Qualcomm "the company that dominates the Android ARM SoC market".

gumby 3y ago
Oh, well this deal will definitely help with the openness issue! (I like a lot of things about Apple but their lack of interest in documenting hardware is one of this things I don’t. It’s ironic given that without Burrell Smith and his doc there would have been no Macintosh).
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- i2cmaster 3y ago
  They seem to document it and just not (intentionally) publish the documents.
- GeekyBear 3y ago
  > their lack of interest in documenting hardware They have their hardware repair documentation online as part of their self service repair program, although I don't think they have finished adding all their products to the program. > Read the repair manual for your iPhone, Mac laptop, Mac desktop or Apple display model to familiarize yourself with the steps required and the parts, tools, and materials needed for your model and repair type. https://support.apple.com/self-service-repair https://support.apple.com/self-service-repair
  - kelnos 3y ago
    I think the parent was talking about chip/register-level documentation, to allow people to write open-source drivers and the like.
jvanderbot 3y ago
Broadcom also makes the main cpu for rasp pi.
- joezydeco 3y ago
  Reverse that. Raspberry Pi started with a Broadcom SoC that the market rejected.
- neilv 3y ago
  It's amusing to imagine Raspberry Pi actually being a brilliant marketing strategy by Broadcom all along.
  - bee_rider 3y ago
    I’m sure it was part of their calculus, providing a crucial part for this kind of hobbyist/introductory device can’t hurt business. Sort of like giving away free academic software.
    - throwaway2037 3y ago
      As I understand, the bulk of single board computers are now being used by manuf.s for assembly line automation. That is the reason why they were so hard to source for hobbyists in the last 2 years. That said, when it started, I doubt Broadcom execs were thinking about manuf.s.
Tuna-Fish 3y ago
Android ARM SoCs are a tiny part of Qualcomm. What you should actually know Qualcomm as is: "The company that developed or acquired all of modern wireless comms tech, and thus gets paid very high license fees for everything that includes anything that talks to anything else over the air." Although I think they are building up the ARM SoC business because some of their key patents are about to expire?
- robotnikman 3y ago
  >gets paid very high license fees for everything that includes anything that talks to anything else over the air And I think this is the major reason why they have stagnated and have not come out with any ARM SoC's capable of matching what Apple has. They can just rest on their laurels collecting rent from all their license fees while releasing an unimpressive new SoC every once in a while I really hope one of the big x86 chip makers decides to dip their toes into ARM at some point
- p_j_w 3y ago
  >The company that developed or acquired all of modern wireless comms tech, and thus gets paid very high license fees for everything that includes anything that talks to anything else over the air. This isn't a great summary of Qualcomm. Their cell modems are the best in the business. Apple has been working on developing their own, and were rumored to try using them in their phones this year, but it's sounding like this still won't happen because they're not up to snuff yet. One needs to only read /r/GooglePixel to find out how well Samsung's modems work, and the news there isn't good. This is true even for 5G, which Qualcomm don't have locked down in patents so well as LTE. >Although I think they are building up the ARM SoC business because some of their key patents are about to expire? What? Their ARM SoC business has been on the same steady path for a decade now. Apple's SoCs are better, but no one gets to buy those. Everyone who has a choice uses Qualcomm SoCs, except again, Google Pixel, which use Samsung SoCs. Not even Samsung uses Samsung SoCs in their phones anymore.
- Workaccount2 3y ago
  I interviewed at qualcomm once, and when entering the building you are greeted by a reception desk flanked by two prominant walls on either side. Those walls are covered, top to bottom left to right, in golden embossed plaques of all their patents. Qualcomm really really likes their IP.
tombert 3y ago
Is that still true? My home built router and my server are both running Broadcom 10G ethernet cards I didn't have do so anything outside of enabling with ifconfig. For the record, the OS's I tried this on were ClearOS and Nixos, but I have no reason to think it wouldn't work with other Linuxes.
- AdmiralAsshat 3y ago
  They used to require installing a proprietary driver, IIRC, which meant you'd have a bootstrapping problem with your new laptop if you didn't have an Ethernet port handy. For that reason I'd usually replace the WiFi chip in my Linux laptops with an Intel 7265 or later, as those had in-kernel support.
  - kitsunesoba 3y ago
    The drivers have a penchant to break with routine updates too, which is irritating to say the least. There's been a few times where on a machine with Broadcom wifi I've found myself without a connection after updating and no ethernet connection handy, forcing me to tether from my phone to get wifi working again. I'm happy that Intel WiFi+BT chipsets have been popular in recent years. Those work great basically everywhere and don't randomly break.
- fomine3 3y ago
  Primary target OS for 10GbE is FOSS Linux so it's natural that its support is great
  - tombert 3y ago
    I suppose that's true; I bought these cards used from a data center; 10GbE is not really part of consumer standards yet. Still, I do feel like I've purchased laptops in the last ~5 years that had Broadcom chipsets and didn't have any issues with WiFi.
ralgozino 3y ago
I'm surprised nobody mentioned that Broadcom is also in process of buying VMware, the topic has been largely discussed here
- InvaderFizz 3y ago
  Because outside of F500 and legacy tech, VMware is largely irrelevant now. It's an interesting footnote, nothing to get excited over as for most of us it makes no difference.
bgorman 3y ago
The current Broadcom is actually a spin-off from HP. This spin-off (Avago) has been on a massive mergers and acquisitions spree over the last decade. This culminated with Avago buying Broadcom and renaming itself to Broadcom. Some of the crappy Wifi+BT chipsets that were sold under broadcom were actually sold off to another company, Cypress Semiconductor.
toofy 3y ago
yep. i will forever get a sick feeling at any mention of broadcom. they could cure a disease or something and i’d still be like “grumblegrumblegrumblebroadcomsucksgrumblegrumble”. i sometimes wonder if my great grandchildren will have inherited some dna trait to hate broadcom lol. i just can’t ever forgive them for the way them and their products treated linux.

I always knew Broadcom as "that company that makes WiFi+BT chipsets that are a pain to use under Linux", vs Qualcomm "the company that dominates the Android ARM SoC market".

gumby 3y ago

Oh, well this deal will definitely help with the openness issue! (I like a lot of things about Apple but their lack of interest in documenting hardware is one of this things I don’t. It’s ironic given that without Burrell Smith and his doc there would have been no Macintosh).

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
i2cmaster 3y ago
They seem to document it and just not (intentionally) publish the documents.
GeekyBear 3y ago
> their lack of interest in documenting hardware They have their hardware repair documentation online as part of their self service repair program, although I don't think they have finished adding all their products to the program. > Read the repair manual for your iPhone, Mac laptop, Mac desktop or Apple display model to familiarize yourself with the steps required and the parts, tools, and materials needed for your model and repair type. https://support.apple.com/self-service-repair https://support.apple.com/self-service-repair
- kelnos 3y ago
  I think the parent was talking about chip/register-level documentation, to allow people to write open-source drivers and the like.

jvanderbot 3y ago

Broadcom also makes the main cpu for rasp pi.

joezydeco 3y ago
Reverse that. Raspberry Pi started with a Broadcom SoC that the market rejected.
neilv 3y ago
It's amusing to imagine Raspberry Pi actually being a brilliant marketing strategy by Broadcom all along.
- bee_rider 3y ago
  I’m sure it was part of their calculus, providing a crucial part for this kind of hobbyist/introductory device can’t hurt business. Sort of like giving away free academic software.
  - throwaway2037 3y ago
    As I understand, the bulk of single board computers are now being used by manuf.s for assembly line automation. That is the reason why they were so hard to source for hobbyists in the last 2 years. That said, when it started, I doubt Broadcom execs were thinking about manuf.s.

Tuna-Fish 3y ago

Android ARM SoCs are a tiny part of Qualcomm. What you should actually know Qualcomm as is: "The company that developed or acquired all of modern wireless comms tech, and thus gets paid very high license fees for everything that includes anything that talks to anything else over the air." Although I think they are building up the ARM SoC business because some of their key patents are about to expire?

robotnikman 3y ago
>gets paid very high license fees for everything that includes anything that talks to anything else over the air And I think this is the major reason why they have stagnated and have not come out with any ARM SoC's capable of matching what Apple has. They can just rest on their laurels collecting rent from all their license fees while releasing an unimpressive new SoC every once in a while I really hope one of the big x86 chip makers decides to dip their toes into ARM at some point
p_j_w 3y ago
>The company that developed or acquired all of modern wireless comms tech, and thus gets paid very high license fees for everything that includes anything that talks to anything else over the air. This isn't a great summary of Qualcomm. Their cell modems are the best in the business. Apple has been working on developing their own, and were rumored to try using them in their phones this year, but it's sounding like this still won't happen because they're not up to snuff yet. One needs to only read /r/GooglePixel to find out how well Samsung's modems work, and the news there isn't good. This is true even for 5G, which Qualcomm don't have locked down in patents so well as LTE. >Although I think they are building up the ARM SoC business because some of their key patents are about to expire? What? Their ARM SoC business has been on the same steady path for a decade now. Apple's SoCs are better, but no one gets to buy those. Everyone who has a choice uses Qualcomm SoCs, except again, Google Pixel, which use Samsung SoCs. Not even Samsung uses Samsung SoCs in their phones anymore.
Workaccount2 3y ago
I interviewed at qualcomm once, and when entering the building you are greeted by a reception desk flanked by two prominant walls on either side. Those walls are covered, top to bottom left to right, in golden embossed plaques of all their patents. Qualcomm really really likes their IP.

tombert 3y ago

Is that still true? My home built router and my server are both running Broadcom 10G ethernet cards I didn't have do so anything outside of enabling with ifconfig. For the record, the OS's I tried this on were ClearOS and Nixos, but I have no reason to think it wouldn't work with other Linuxes.

AdmiralAsshat 3y ago
They used to require installing a proprietary driver, IIRC, which meant you'd have a bootstrapping problem with your new laptop if you didn't have an Ethernet port handy. For that reason I'd usually replace the WiFi chip in my Linux laptops with an Intel 7265 or later, as those had in-kernel support.
- kitsunesoba 3y ago
  The drivers have a penchant to break with routine updates too, which is irritating to say the least. There's been a few times where on a machine with Broadcom wifi I've found myself without a connection after updating and no ethernet connection handy, forcing me to tether from my phone to get wifi working again. I'm happy that Intel WiFi+BT chipsets have been popular in recent years. Those work great basically everywhere and don't randomly break.
fomine3 3y ago
Primary target OS for 10GbE is FOSS Linux so it's natural that its support is great
- tombert 3y ago
  I suppose that's true; I bought these cards used from a data center; 10GbE is not really part of consumer standards yet. Still, I do feel like I've purchased laptops in the last ~5 years that had Broadcom chipsets and didn't have any issues with WiFi.

ralgozino 3y ago

I'm surprised nobody mentioned that Broadcom is also in process of buying VMware, the topic has been largely discussed here

InvaderFizz 3y ago
Because outside of F500 and legacy tech, VMware is largely irrelevant now. It's an interesting footnote, nothing to get excited over as for most of us it makes no difference.

bgorman 3y ago

The current Broadcom is actually a spin-off from HP. This spin-off (Avago) has been on a massive mergers and acquisitions spree over the last decade. This culminated with Avago buying Broadcom and renaming itself to Broadcom. Some of the crappy Wifi+BT chipsets that were sold under broadcom were actually sold off to another company, Cypress Semiconductor.

toofy 3y ago

yep. i will forever get a sick feeling at any mention of broadcom. they could cure a disease or something and i’d still be like “grumblegrumblegrumblebroadcomsucksgrumblegrumble”. i sometimes wonder if my great grandchildren will have inherited some dna trait to hate broadcom lol. i just can’t ever forgive them for the way them and their products treated linux.