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Really shows how ill the "App Store" model is when a company like Nintendo who has an entire hardware empire off selling high quality non-exploitative games can

Really shows how ill the "App Store" model is when a company like Nintendo who has an entire hardware empire off selling high quality non-exploitative games can't make money on it without resorting to gambling industry tactics like the other low quality apps/games on there. Sad that I had hoped some exec at Nintendo would veto this approach as "Not Nintendo" rather than choosing to tarnish the brand and take the money, like Apple did.

Skeime 3y ago
Which Apple thing are you referring to? But yeah, the (monetization) design of Nintendo’s mobile games is quite disappointing.
- paulryanrogers 3y ago
  Perhaps Apple's moves to the cloud and making more services? Or even allowing loot boxes in apps on its store.
  - freedomben 3y ago
    I am highly critical of Apple's heavy handed "approval" requirements for apps coupled with not allowing users to sideload, but if they're going to do it anyway ostensibly for protecting the user, the least they could do it is block the clearly exploitative loot-box approach.
- whywhywhywhy 3y ago
  >Which Apple thing are you referring to? The App Store and exploitative the models it's design perpetuates.
- mrguyorama 3y ago
  Apple is in for 30% of the take from every single gambling and gacha games, and the take is MASSIVE. They have very strong "incentives" to not have a problem with giving kids gambling games.
kobalsky 3y ago
> Sad that I had hoped some exec at Nintendo would veto this approach as "Not Nintendo" I'm guessing it happened to a point. King with their Candy Crush saga had higher revenue and profits than Blizzard [1] for a while now. The amount of money mobile gaming pulls is insane. It's hard to leave that on the table. Luckily this didn't spread beyond their mobile apps, unlike other game developers that push to replicate the model on desktop and consoles. [1] https://www.tweaktown.com/news/84423/king-has-made-more-money-than-blizzard-every-year-in-the-last-3-years/index.html https://www.tweaktown.com/news/84423/king-has-made-more-mone...
- Slippery_John 3y ago
  Does the switch even have the capability to support a mictrotransaction focused shell game? The store is incredibly slow and obtuse, where these things rely a lot on smooth, fast transactions to get it over with before people can think too hard.
  - eropple 3y ago
    Their DLC flows aren't that different from something like Sony's.
  - senko 3y ago
    Store looks like a webpage that gets opened in Switch's browser. They do have a concept of filling up your store credit and then spending it on purchases, so the future microtransaction flow could just grab a few credits that you already have on your account. Let's hope that never happens.
- jimbob45 3y ago
  Candy Crush isn't even top 5 in revenue [0]. Genshin isn't top 10. How can you look at money like that and ever think of going back to the flat fee price model as an executive? That said, I've wondered why game companies haven't transitioned back to a socialized model where high profit games are used to subsidize the high-intellect games. I'm talking something like 2014 Blizzard where Hearthstone dwarfed the money every other IP was making but which still attracted a higher-end audience with SC2 and WoW. [0]https://www.sportskeeda.com/esports/news-genshin-impact-among-successful-mobile-games-ever-earned-4-billion-2023 https://www.sportskeeda.com/esports/news-genshin-impact-amon...
omneity 3y ago
This is a fascinating conclusion. Are there other business models for App Store-like ecosystems that are less broken?
- madeofpalk 3y ago
  Is it that fascinating? Apple makes 70% of App Store revenue from games. These aren't $2, $10, or $60 games on iOS - they're casino simulators for children. This is pretty apparent, and is one of their biggest criticism https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/10/apple-vs-epic-70percent-of-app-store-revenue-from-customers-playing-games.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/10/apple-vs-epic-70percent-of-a... https://daringfireball.net/linked/2023/05/05/apple-arcade-new-games https://daringfireball.net/linked/2023/05/05/apple-arcade-ne...
  - omneity 3y ago
    That a century old company with decades of tradition in gaming is not able to eke out a workable business model on Apple's App Store that is not exploitative is indeed fascinating to me. It should be a damning conclusion to the current business model. I am familiar with the Epic debacle. And while I find the Apple Arcade business model a much better one, I am not sure if it works at the scale of an entire app store. We'll have to see if SetApp ever takes off (same business model, but for apps).
holmium 3y ago
> Sad that I had hoped some exec at Nintendo would veto this approach as "Not Nintendo" rather than choosing to tarnish the brand and take the money, like Apple did. They did, originally. They released a $10, no microtransactions Mario game (Super Mario Run) in 2016. The general consensus is that the game did not live up to Nintendo's commercial expectations[1], and I think that's true. Nintendo entirely switched to the more standard App Store game model for its later mobile titles, and they print money. As for "tarnishing the brand," Nintendo still hasn't really put a "full title" on mobile, with the maybe possible exception of Mario Kart. It feels like they are still keeping their distance, but who knows what would have happened if the Switch sales were more like the Wii U than the Wii. -------- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Run#Commercial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Run#Commercial
- airstrike 3y ago
  There's a huge spectrum of pricing possibilities between $10 flat for a generic run game (in 2016!) and lootboxes
  - freedomben 3y ago
    They could have released DLCs that added more levels for increasing somewhat recurring revenue. I would have gladly jumped at that.
  - krageon 3y ago
    Super mario run is very good (teaches you the mechanics well, has ramping difficulty, keeps things fresh with challenges, etc) and well themed, it's hardy a "generic run game".
- doodpants 3y ago
  Don't know about anyone else, but the reason I never bought Super Mario Run was because it required a constant internet connection, AND you had to create an account with Nintendo. (At the time, I had an iPod Touch rather than a phone with a cell connection, and usually kept Wi-Fi turned off to save battery, so I only played games that could run offline. So my situation was probably not common, but Nintendo's choices here still feel a bit invasive.)
nvgeele 3y ago
> Really shows how ill the "App Store" model is when a company like Nintendo who has an entire hardware empire off selling high quality non-exploitative games can't make money on it without resorting to gambling industry tactics like the other low quality apps/games on there. Or they're just greedy. They make tons of money running their own walled gardens.

Skeime 3y ago

Which Apple thing are you referring to? But yeah, the (monetization) design of Nintendo’s mobile games is quite disappointing.

paulryanrogers 3y ago
Perhaps Apple's moves to the cloud and making more services? Or even allowing loot boxes in apps on its store.
- freedomben 3y ago
  I am highly critical of Apple's heavy handed "approval" requirements for apps coupled with not allowing users to sideload, but if they're going to do it anyway ostensibly for protecting the user, the least they could do it is block the clearly exploitative loot-box approach.
whywhywhywhy 3y ago
>Which Apple thing are you referring to? The App Store and exploitative the models it's design perpetuates.
mrguyorama 3y ago
Apple is in for 30% of the take from every single gambling and gacha games, and the take is MASSIVE. They have very strong "incentives" to not have a problem with giving kids gambling games.

kobalsky 3y ago

> Sad that I had hoped some exec at Nintendo would veto this approach as "Not Nintendo" I'm guessing it happened to a point. King with their Candy Crush saga had higher revenue and profits than Blizzard [1] for a while now. The amount of money mobile gaming pulls is insane. It's hard to leave that on the table. Luckily this didn't spread beyond their mobile apps, unlike other game developers that push to replicate the model on desktop and consoles. [1] https://www.tweaktown.com/news/84423/king-has-made-more-money-than-blizzard-every-year-in-the-last-3-years/index.html https://www.tweaktown.com/news/84423/king-has-made-more-mone...

Slippery_John 3y ago
Does the switch even have the capability to support a mictrotransaction focused shell game? The store is incredibly slow and obtuse, where these things rely a lot on smooth, fast transactions to get it over with before people can think too hard.
- eropple 3y ago
  Their DLC flows aren't that different from something like Sony's.
- senko 3y ago
  Store looks like a webpage that gets opened in Switch's browser. They do have a concept of filling up your store credit and then spending it on purchases, so the future microtransaction flow could just grab a few credits that you already have on your account. Let's hope that never happens.
jimbob45 3y ago
Candy Crush isn't even top 5 in revenue [0]. Genshin isn't top 10. How can you look at money like that and ever think of going back to the flat fee price model as an executive? That said, I've wondered why game companies haven't transitioned back to a socialized model where high profit games are used to subsidize the high-intellect games. I'm talking something like 2014 Blizzard where Hearthstone dwarfed the money every other IP was making but which still attracted a higher-end audience with SC2 and WoW. [0]https://www.sportskeeda.com/esports/news-genshin-impact-among-successful-mobile-games-ever-earned-4-billion-2023 https://www.sportskeeda.com/esports/news-genshin-impact-amon...

omneity 3y ago

This is a fascinating conclusion. Are there other business models for App Store-like ecosystems that are less broken?

madeofpalk 3y ago
Is it that fascinating? Apple makes 70% of App Store revenue from games. These aren't $2, $10, or $60 games on iOS - they're casino simulators for children. This is pretty apparent, and is one of their biggest criticism https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/10/apple-vs-epic-70percent-of-app-store-revenue-from-customers-playing-games.html https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/10/apple-vs-epic-70percent-of-a... https://daringfireball.net/linked/2023/05/05/apple-arcade-new-games https://daringfireball.net/linked/2023/05/05/apple-arcade-ne...
- omneity 3y ago
  That a century old company with decades of tradition in gaming is not able to eke out a workable business model on Apple's App Store that is not exploitative is indeed fascinating to me. It should be a damning conclusion to the current business model. I am familiar with the Epic debacle. And while I find the Apple Arcade business model a much better one, I am not sure if it works at the scale of an entire app store. We'll have to see if SetApp ever takes off (same business model, but for apps).

holmium 3y ago

> Sad that I had hoped some exec at Nintendo would veto this approach as "Not Nintendo" rather than choosing to tarnish the brand and take the money, like Apple did. They did, originally. They released a $10, no microtransactions Mario game (Super Mario Run) in 2016. The general consensus is that the game did not live up to Nintendo's commercial expectations[1], and I think that's true. Nintendo entirely switched to the more standard App Store game model for its later mobile titles, and they print money. As for "tarnishing the brand," Nintendo still hasn't really put a "full title" on mobile, with the maybe possible exception of Mario Kart. It feels like they are still keeping their distance, but who knows what would have happened if the Switch sales were more like the Wii U than the Wii. -------- [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Run#Commercial https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Mario_Run#Commercial

airstrike 3y ago
There's a huge spectrum of pricing possibilities between $10 flat for a generic run game (in 2016!) and lootboxes
- freedomben 3y ago
  They could have released DLCs that added more levels for increasing somewhat recurring revenue. I would have gladly jumped at that.
- krageon 3y ago
  Super mario run is very good (teaches you the mechanics well, has ramping difficulty, keeps things fresh with challenges, etc) and well themed, it's hardy a "generic run game".
doodpants 3y ago
Don't know about anyone else, but the reason I never bought Super Mario Run was because it required a constant internet connection, AND you had to create an account with Nintendo. (At the time, I had an iPod Touch rather than a phone with a cell connection, and usually kept Wi-Fi turned off to save battery, so I only played games that could run offline. So my situation was probably not common, but Nintendo's choices here still feel a bit invasive.)

nvgeele 3y ago

> Really shows how ill the "App Store" model is when a company like Nintendo who has an entire hardware empire off selling high quality non-exploitative games can't make money on it without resorting to gambling industry tactics like the other low quality apps/games on there. Or they're just greedy. They make tons of money running their own walled gardens.